Delphi Murders Update: crime scene information leaked by the Defense & Westville staff wore patches

[00:00:00] This podcast is a Jeff Townsend media production.

[00:00:04] This is Jeff Townsend.

[00:00:05] Thank you for joining us for another episode of Indiana stories.

[00:00:22] All right.

[00:00:22] Welcome back to another Indiana story segment, a branch of America stories, of course.

[00:01:24] pretty often, which is kind of unfortunate, because oftentimes they're not good updates.

[00:01:26] Well, I think as we get closer to this trial, whatever happens,

[00:01:31] I think we'll continue to have more and more.

[00:01:33] We're definitely starting to get to where, I don't want to call it a game

[00:01:37] because it just sounds psychotic.

[00:01:38] Things are just starting, I guess you could say, really here,

[00:01:41] ultimately.

[00:01:42] We're really just getting going and we got a long haul.

[00:01:44] I see we as an everybody that has any sort of emotional investment, tried this to the connection with the crime scene itself in some of the things that were done at the crime scene. We talked about that on the last episode. And they even went as far as say that, hey, these guards at the prison are involved trying to, I guess, pressure coheres. They made Richard Allen confess to the crimes because the other in this group is they're involved with it. It's a whole whole situation of a lot of people, I guess, coming together to do this is what the

[00:03:04] defense is saying. And they said, hey, the guards at the prison, and this is all like,

[00:04:06] crazy to say that I'm not surprised that they had the patches on after that was leaked. I mean, after they submitted that document last month, everybody's acting really shocked.

[00:04:11] To me, I'm not shocked.

[00:04:13] They wouldn't have said it unless they had a reason to say it.

[00:04:16] This is the way I can look at it.

[00:04:17] I think you're on the money, Jeff.

[00:04:20] It's a situation where when this camera is in a jail or a's, I think it just kind of shows the public's kind of pendulum attitude to this case where it's like, we're not going to believe the defense. Oh wait, the patches are there, then everything the defense says must be true. And it's kind like it was a breach of rules or a breach at least of what should be rules because that's not necessarily the appropriate place where honestly when this stuff about the patches came up, we were just so in the midst of this unfolding disaster

[00:07:04] about the leak that we kind of, I'll know who's behind it all, but man, talk about being really observant, huh? I mean, picking up on obviously things that you visit the prison. And as you they talked to Richard Allen, you know, somebody's very observant and did catch that obviously, you know, whether Richard Allen directly told them or they picked that

[00:08:20] it will never know, but I guess that's a side of the point, but definitely observant of

[00:08:24] the environment that he's in. voted to it that apparently they were threatening and intimidating Richard Allen and basically coercing him to make confessions to his wife and mother. So in these statements, the guards acknowledged that they did have patches that they were

[00:09:40] they indicated that they were just part of their faith and they were not oneness. different practices. And so they're basically disputing that. And I think the thing people are missing on this is that this gives a explanation for Richard Allen's alleged confessions. Does not bring in mental health because the defense has been fighting to keep his mental health records from the prison from going to the prosecution. If his mental health becomes an issue,

[00:12:02] this subject manner further. Yeah, we've even interviewed members of the Trove switches, a heathen group, they're

[00:12:06] anti-racist.

[00:12:07] They actually combat the odeness.

[00:12:10] They have a whole ministry where prisoners write them and they write back saying, hey,

[00:12:14] you can be a heathen without being racist or joining a white supremacist game.

[00:12:19] Yeah, which, man, it's just next is, like Kevin said, they're going to have to really

[00:12:24] connect all that and how it relates to. trials wrapping up, the arguments have been made. They supply you with the evidence that you're allowed to review until you come back with the decision, right? Guilty or not guilty or whatever. They leaked. They had come to an agreement where because the police had to arrest, they arrested the young man. Well, they handcuffed him, right?

[00:13:40] They weren't necessarily arrest him.

[00:13:42] He ran away and that was protocol you guys were able to, so somebody reached out to you and supplied you with some information that had been circulated.

[00:15:01] Yeah, so on the early morning hours of October 5th around. Then the person who published that on social media reached out to us. And, you know, early morning hours ended up sending us a number of more graphic, I'm seeing photographs in addition to other discovery material to give you a sense. The discovery material in the Delphi case is under a protective order,

[00:16:20] meaning that you're really not supposed to leak it.

[00:16:24] Like there's a there's an order against that from the judge.

[00:16:27] That's not a case in every both sides know because we did not know where the breach was coming from. So, seemed prudent to say, hey, these are the two sides. Here's what's going on. And with that, at the same time, the man who sent them to us, who is not associated with the defense in any way, and was not the know, it's just, I guess, we don't know motivations, we don't know any of that. It's hard to fathom, frankly. But it's just been such a sad and devastating situation, frankly.

[00:19:03] The families now have to worry.

[00:19:05] Unfortunately, so we're not the only. And I feel like there's a spectrum in journalism of like, you know, stuff that furthers the public's understanding, but as far as we're concerned, these don't have any journalistic purpose whatsoever because none of us have the tools to analyze them because we don't have the full context of the case as the jury will have.

[00:20:22] Is that, so the, the setting part obviously

[00:20:25] to start is the victims of the case, right thing here. I think to me, what's really sad and what's just like, understandable. And we relate to this. I feel like curiosity drove a lot of this and curiosity is a wonderful thing. Like you're curious, we're curious. Like we want to know what's on a lot of these cases. It's just when it trumps everything else, when it trumps like human decency or respect for the court or respect for the

[00:21:44] process, which is for Richard Allen's could damage a defendant's rights, things have gone way too far. And a lot of it could be the way this case has been managed. There's a lot of,

[00:23:04] there's a long time I thought a lot of information. So it's kind of been a breeding ground of

[00:24:07] what did you keep some of these details under wraps right i certainly think that did contribute to the rise of social media.

[00:24:17] In this case and so in social media was time i'm also throw some shade of true crime and that's that's dangerous because obviously we have a true crime podcast but.

[00:24:28] I'm for years as a marketing tactic and a branding tactic true crime is just a genre so let's talk about that a little bit.

[00:25:42] To me I mean you didn't say anything wrong there it kind of sounds like to me when I just

[00:26:45] things like that. Then when that channel in particular, I'm just going to mention it because I think that

[00:26:51] everybody's heard of it at this point in time. It's really just boomed in the last 10 years. But with that, you kind of had this, like you said, this citizen involvement has really escalated.

[00:26:57] And along with the internet and social media, all these things that have grown, because even 10 years ago,

[00:27:03] the internet isn't what it is today, you certainly like, oh, people have some interesting ideas. And now that we actually talk to people who like know what they're talking about, you can kind of see where like it's just people jumping to conclusions. It's not really that helpful. And I'd like to say, I think it's important to stress that the vast, vast, vast, vast

[00:28:20] majority of people who are interested into a crime and who follow true crime, it's a

[00:28:25] healthy interest. seen down and sedate. And on his obviously, he's well very upset about this data true crime. And so I went up to mention that the person we referred to is our actually in the midst of all of this took his own life. And obviously, we can't be in this man's family got a chance to bury him or have a funeral, there were people online spreading his name. We have to find out the truth about this. They have conspiracy theories. They're getting murdered by odinists. Obviously something distasteful. It's very distasteful. And I just, I wish, I think a lot of people are reaching out with empathy and sort of like,

[00:31:02] this is anphi thing.

[00:32:20] That is correct.

[00:32:21] This. So the question is going to be how did they get it then if they don't,

[00:32:24] if they didn't work there during this Delphi thing.

[00:32:26] So we don't know.

[00:33:22] how the leaker, excuse me, hit my microphone. We don't know how the leaker got the information

[00:33:23] that somebody leak it to the leakers.

[00:33:25] They're more leaking going on than we know about.

[00:33:28] I guess is why I'm trying to clean up here.

[00:33:30] We've not seen any evidence in all of this

[00:33:33] and all of our digging into this,

[00:33:34] that the defense team, the attorneys,

[00:33:37] directly knew about this leak.

[00:33:39] All we've seen is that it's coming through

[00:33:41] somebody who used to work for Andy Baldwin

[00:33:44] who may have gotten improper access,

[00:33:46] but nothing about like, it was a extended breach. If that makes sense. Now, I just wanted to specify that. If you, if you're just watching television, something, sometimes that is not explained very well, they kind of go jumping on to the next guest,

[00:35:04] the next expert or whatever.

[00:35:05] And what you just said is not an explained really well, in my opinion.

[00:36:05] Wide range of options because these attorneys are appointed by the court. So

[00:36:10] Richard Allen isn't paying for them the state is and they were brought in by the court

[00:36:12] Right. You can reprimand them

[00:36:18] Don't let this happen again. She can there could be fines. There could be contempt of court charges

[00:36:21] There could be The dismissal of one or both attorneys and we come down on them because this is not, if it was a situation where this was like an, a current paralegal who was doing something to sabotage them,

[00:37:41] but who had filled out the paperwork

[00:37:43] and the lawyers had done everything correctly,

[00:37:45] then it would come down on that person.

[00:37:47] But the buck stops with the attorneys. I'm like, we really appreciate you and the sensitivity and intelligence that you bring to your coverage of this case because I feel like us checking in with you once in a while is clarifying for us as reporters to kind of regroup. Look at the big picture. We're so in the weeds on this. Sometimes it feels that it's often very nice to come on and chat with you, especially

[00:39:01] in circumstances like this, where it's just been a very heavy process for the past few

[00:39:06] weeks.

[00:39:07] And just thank you. connection there, although I can't relate to the situation and God heaven forbid that never would want to, but it's still an emotional attachment there that I definitely feel for me. It's beyond obviously it's it's it hits it home because it is near home, right? And because of the situation of the I have kids, so I appreciate

[00:40:22] you guys taking the time to tidy up that part of it a little bit.

[00:40:25] And I would summarize it also by information that probably shouldn't be public or information true or false or whatever. But what does it mean to you guys that this individual came to you and trusted you with

[00:41:43] doing the right thing with this? rectified the situation by saying, okay, I was participating in this leak. And then all of a sudden you're like, I'm sure we've all had that moment of realization where we've been doing something we've almost been so one track minded, we're just doing it. And then we kind of come up for air and say, I mean, I mean, you need to do something differently now. And I feel like the strength of changing your mind and switching and pivoting

[00:43:01] says a lot more about somebody's character than just the initial mistake.

[00:43:05] And so we appreciate him and appreciate the trust he gave us. sometimes because I've just seen a lot of stuff that I find wrong with this. I think it's made me realize on some level the importance of good journalism and why not waiting for authority to give you information is so important, why it's important to just go and get it

[00:44:23] and inform the public because I've seen what happens when it's Kevin said resolve to try to do journalism, responsible journalism in a new media format. And I'll say for me, one thing, when you're not a part of the case directly, you're just reading about it as a news consumer.

[00:45:42] I think it's easy to almost think of it as a story,

[00:45:47] like no different from something you for everyone in the case. Yeah. And just it just people in general because it's like when you're flattened down to a, you know, a few of great people. We've met you. We wouldn't have met you if not for this case. And you're a great person. We really get a lot of out of our conversations with you. And we've also met other people, listeners and stuff who we don't even talk to. We just exchange emails or text with.

[00:48:22] And there are so many good people out there.

[00:48:26] There's so many good and caring people. and do what's right on the platform that you have available as an outlet. And make sure you're doing the right things, you're utilizing it correctly because it's easy to get off track, I think is what I can say from this conversation we just said. Amen. And it's easy when you see people making mistakes to want to cause them out and put your boot

[00:49:42] on their neck and just shame them as much as possible. logical information, nothing reckless being shared on the murder sheet podcast, which I always appreciate. So make sure you check out that podcast or wherever you listen to podcast or murder sheet podcast.com. Man, I'll never forget that because I run the website. Yes. By run it. I mean, I don't have to do anything with it, but nevertheless, yeah,

[00:51:02] thank you both for your time as always.

[00:51:03] And I encourage everybody to check out everything you guys are doing.

[00:51:05] Thank you so much, Jeff.