The Cheat Sheet: Violence and Vigilantes

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[00:02:35] Content warning this episode contains discussion of murder and violence including

[00:02:41] violence and murder against child victims. It also contains discussion of domestic violence.

[00:02:49] So it's Friday, which means we're back with another edition of the cheat sheet.

[00:02:54] We're going to be covering a variety of crimes from one end of the United States to the other

[00:03:00] and we will be concluding with me offering an awkward apology.

[00:03:04] My name is Anya Keane. I'm a journalist and I'm Kevin Greenley. I'm an attorney.

[00:03:10] And this is the murder sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reported

[00:03:15] interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're the murder sheet.

[00:03:19] And this is the cheat sheet, violence and vigilantes.

[00:03:45] Let's start off the episode in Wisconsin. This is a sad and disturbing case coming out of

[00:04:14] the city of two rivers. And it involves a missing three-year-old boy named Elijah Vue.

[00:04:22] So this child was seemingly last seen on February 20th of this year.

[00:04:29] And there was a man supposed to be watching him. So Elijah's mother is a woman named Katrina Bauer

[00:04:36] and a man named Jesse Van was seemingly watching him this morning.

[00:04:40] So he claims that he brought the boy into his room after he dropped his teenage son off at a bus stop.

[00:04:47] And they napped, but when he woke up around 11 a.m. Elijah was gone.

[00:04:52] So there's not been a lot of information on this case lately.

[00:04:56] We know that there is a $25,000 reward and the tip line for anyone who may know anything.

[00:05:02] It's 844-267-6648. Keep the tips relevant. They want people who know things about the actual

[00:05:11] case, not like suggestions on how to do the investigation. But what's disturbing is that there have been

[00:05:18] charges handed out even though we don't know what happened to Elijah yet. Katrina Bauer and Jesse

[00:05:24] Van are facing child neglect charges. Bauer so far has pleaded not guilty. But it seems like

[00:05:31] there is some kind of case against them for the very least at this time, child neglect.

[00:05:36] And it's incredibly sad. I mean a little baby, a three-year-old cannot advocate for themselves

[00:05:43] and when something like this happens and there's scrutiny on the caregivers whether that's

[00:05:48] somebody who's just watching the kid or the parents. It's always very disturbing to me because

[00:05:55] I mean a child relies on those people to stay alive. And when there's something going wrong there,

[00:06:03] that's very disturbing. But so far searches are continuing to go out.

[00:06:08] I think some good sources on this are the C. Hay for News outlet, W.E.A.U.W.B.A.Y.

[00:06:17] and ABC7. And we also checked out the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children page for Elijah

[00:06:24] because that gives you a sense of what he looks like. So this child is still missing.

[00:06:29] We hope he is found safe, but it's certainly very disturbing when a child this small disappears like

[00:06:36] this. Yeah violence against children I think is something that really affects a lot of people more

[00:06:44] than other crimes because they are so vulnerable and really rely on others. And a child should be given

[00:06:55] a safe environment to grow up in and thrive. And when something like this happens is just horrifying

[00:07:03] and a reminder of how cruel the world can be. Absolutely. For our next case I was thinking we could go

[00:07:09] down to mild stomping ground of Virginia. And this is out of Stafford County Virginia. So Elijah's

[00:07:16] case is ongoing and very new. This is an older case. And our sources for this one are the Potomac

[00:07:22] News which we accessed through newspapers.com as well as CBS19 did some good coverage of it.

[00:07:29] So back in the 80s to women were brutally murdered in Stafford County. So the first case happened on

[00:07:40] November 14th 1986, a 32 year old woman named Jacqueline Lard. She was last seen working in

[00:07:48] her office. She worked at a real estate firm on Garrisonville Road in Stafford. And the next day

[00:07:57] the office was found in disarray. There were signs of a struggle disturbing details. Her body

[00:08:03] was ultimately found on November 16th of that year in a wooded area by some kids covered in an old

[00:08:10] carpet and her vehicle was found December 18th in Fairfax County. So she had been murdered. And

[00:08:20] they immediately began looking into this. One interesting thing about Miss Lard or Mrs. Lard is

[00:08:27] that she was actually the wife of a drug enforcement administration agent. So her husband,

[00:08:35] Ron Lard was a DEA agent. So the question early on I imagine was obvious question. Did his work

[00:08:41] have anything to do with criminals retaliating against his family? And that must be like a nightmare

[00:08:49] scenario for anyone in law enforcement that the work they do could boomerang and affect those

[00:08:55] they love the most. It's horrifying. Also, I'll note, I think one of the early articles said she

[00:09:01] was 32 but I'm also reading that she may have been 40 so I think 40 is accurate but there seems

[00:09:06] to have been some discrepancies. You do see that with early newspaper coverages of a case

[00:09:11] reporters are not perfect. They're trying to get details out there. They may miss here. They

[00:09:16] may get the wrong thing. So just flagging that. But yeah, what a horrifying situation for him

[00:09:21] and their whole family and for the people who worked at the Stafford Mount Vernon

[00:09:27] Realty Office like that's a horrible thing to happen to your co-worker as well especially at work

[00:09:32] and this went unsolved you know and Ron Lard was the one who had to come. He was out of town at

[00:09:37] the time on the job has to come and identify her body just horrifying. Relatively quickly,

[00:09:45] one force from puts together what they called a non-complete profile and I'm going to read it out

[00:09:51] because there's going to be some things wrong with it that you're going to find out in the end

[00:09:55] and I think that profiling can be a wonderful tool for law enforcement in a case. It can help you

[00:10:02] conceptualize things, it can help you maybe hone in on some of the psychological aspects of a crime

[00:10:08] so I don't think profiling is useless but I think that it is hit or miss and therefore releasing a

[00:10:14] profile publicly to the public is not always the best thing for a case because you know,

[00:10:22] you can get details wrong and then you have everybody looking for one thing when they should be

[00:10:25] looking for another. So their profile non-complete profile was said the killer must be several years

[00:10:33] younger than Mrs. Lard of average intelligence which I don't even know what you know, that would

[00:10:40] be kind of hard for people to even think about because what does that mean and then they said he

[00:10:45] was white and a semi-skilled or manual laborer. At least one of those things turns out to be wrong

[00:10:52] maybe some of them turned out to be correct so a profile in addition you can get a bunch of things

[00:10:58] but when you're directing the public in one way then that's where it's a problem so that's anyway

[00:11:03] might feel about profiling. Unfortunately three years later there was another victim taken so March 29

[00:11:12] 1989 a young woman from Stafford named Amy Baker she's visiting family and falls church Virginia

[00:11:18] it's just kind of surreal because I'm like relatively familiar with some of these places reading about

[00:11:22] this and I never had heard about this case before this but she goes home and her car is later found

[00:11:30] abandoned so Virginia State police find her car and that discovery occurred on March 31st a few days

[00:11:38] later and this is around interstate 95 her body is found in a wooded area near an exit ramp so

[00:11:50] that also goes cold. In 2021 the Fairfax County Police Department submitted evidence to DNA labs

[00:11:57] international and that in addition from help from the state database ended up linking the two cases

[00:12:05] so same perpetrator then Parabond nanolabs gets involved now they're very well known in the true

[00:12:12] crime space they do a lot of incredible work with genetic genealogy identifying perpetrators

[00:12:17] so they figure out the family name of the suspect on December 14th 2023

[00:12:24] they figured out it was Harrison now they have to look at the Harrison family and determine

[00:12:29] who is the specific perpetrator because obviously you know you could be related to somebody

[00:12:34] share their DNA but you're not a bad person like you can't just try to start arresting everybody in

[00:12:39] the family right well they narrowed it down and figured out it was 65 year old Elroy Neil Harrison

[00:12:50] and he was ultimately indicted by a grand jury on first degree murder abduction and other charges

[00:12:57] and yeah so they got him recently and now he doesn't fit the profile he was actually black but

[00:13:04] you know maybe some of the other details were accurate being like you know relatively intelligent

[00:13:11] or a manual laborer I don't know I guess that will come out later on but it does show you I mean

[00:13:17] I hope some of these perpetrators of these violent crimes especially no you know the ones where they

[00:13:23] there's some sort of sexual assault going on seemingly or some sort of DNA left I hope they're all

[00:13:27] shaking in their boots right now because it really seems like a lot of these things are just being

[00:13:32] cleared and figured out left and right yeah this is a very interesting time for us all to be alive

[00:13:39] when we get to see so many old cases solved I really my heart goes out to the large family as well

[00:13:47] as the Baker family and I hope that this is able to at least give them answers about what happened

[00:13:54] to their loved ones so long ago it's frustrating in these cases because you know someone like

[00:14:00] Harrison gets to go live his life for decades while they're suffering and his victims don't get

[00:14:04] to live theirs but I'm glad he's alive I'm glad he's alive to possibly face repercussions for

[00:14:12] what he did to these women speaking of violence against women let's get to this next case out

[00:14:21] of Illinois out of Chicago this one is horrifying to read about not only because of what happened but

[00:14:29] because of how much our system the system let down this one family and just the agonizing results

[00:14:40] of that I just I just feel so disgusted reading about this case I can't really even put it into

[00:14:47] words so it centers around a 37 year old man named Crissetti brand you know years and years ago he

[00:14:55] was romantically involved with a woman named Lataria Smith and he was a violent man he did a

[00:15:04] home invasion harmed harm to woman he had protective orders against him from ultimately Smith

[00:15:10] and several other women and he ended up getting handed down a 16 year sentence so meanwhile

[00:15:17] Lataria Smith moves on she has a children she has an 11 year old child named Jaden Perkins

[00:15:25] she has a five year old and she's pregnant and Jaden Perkins was as I mentioned 11 this year

[00:15:33] just an incredibly talented wonderful child a wonderful dancer you know showing that artistic

[00:15:42] creative side from a young age and you know thriving in that space and just by all accounts just

[00:15:49] a wonderful wonderful kid and you know they're they're having their lives together as a family

[00:15:56] and that's and that's wonderful so after serving eight years brand gets paroled in October

[00:16:06] so on January 30th he starts texting Smith threatening to kill her and her family so this is a

[00:16:13] violent offender who's just been paroled and is texting her texting up someone who has had a

[00:16:20] protective order against him that he's going to kill her and her family and then it gets worse it

[00:16:25] escalates February 1st he shows up at her apartment in Chicago and tries to break in she calls the police

[00:16:33] she hasn't had like anything to do with this man for years and years and so he's doing this

[00:16:38] and she calls the police as you should and they don't they don't have her file anything they don't

[00:16:44] they don't really do anything they just tell her to go to court so okay so we're already starting

[00:16:49] to see things go wrong this guy is getting paroled he's still out and doing these things so yeah

[00:16:55] definitely not exactly a case for rehabilitation here and then the police are saying well just

[00:17:00] got to the court and then she goes to the court so February 21st she asks for an emergency order

[00:17:06] protection which seems like pretty reasonable given what he's doing and frankly like she needs more

[00:17:14] than an emergency order protection at this point because that's a piece of paper you know I mean

[00:17:20] that's ultimately he's going to do whatever but at the very least then she could potentially

[00:17:24] bring it to someone and say maybe he should be picked up on a parole violation so she's running

[00:17:30] around doing everything correctly to protect herself and her family but the judge Thomas Noinsky

[00:17:36] doesn't really feel like she has sufficient evidence for an emergency case so he continues this

[00:17:41] until March 13th and this guy's out there I mean he's out

[00:17:48] at some point he is picked up again and his case goes before the prisoner review board which makes

[00:17:59] decisions around this in Illinois and they look at this and they felt that the allegations against him

[00:18:11] didn't meet the standards to detain him any further so they release him on parole again on March 12th

[00:18:17] the following day is supposed to be the day that you know the court is continued stuff until

[00:18:22] and they're going to take a look at it against you know they don't feel like it's an emergency

[00:18:26] that morning he shows up at her apartment stands outside when she opens the door he forces his

[00:18:33] way inside and starts stabbing her a pregnant woman jaden her 11-year-old tries to intervene

[00:18:40] and protect his mother and he stabs him to death and the five-year-old is watching all of this

[00:18:48] I cannot imagine anything more horrific and just completely unnecessary as something like this

[00:18:53] happening and this man is showing all of these warning signs all of these red flags he's obviously

[00:18:59] not rehabilitated if he's freaking running around and threatening women and their children and nobody

[00:19:08] nobody's nobody's able to do anything about this I mean isn't

[00:19:13] isn't stuff like this what parole violations are for I mean like I just don't understand

[00:19:18] and so obviously it's caused a firestorm you know uh you know the police chief gets out there

[00:19:25] and is complaining about this but frankly I don't feel like the police who responded to

[00:19:28] the serious myth in the first place exactly covered themselves in glory I don't know why

[00:19:33] there wasn't more of an effort to get the police report in there and take it seriously it just

[00:19:39] seemed like every time she's doing everything correctly and trying her best and is not being given

[00:19:45] any resources and is not being partnered with any groups that can maybe like temporarily take in

[00:19:52] her and her family to get away from this guy she's left to deal with it all on her on her own

[00:19:58] as a mother taking care of all these children and she's doing her darnness to make it

[00:20:04] happen and she's up against this apathetic system that just let her down and let her child down and

[00:20:11] now now jaden perkins is dead and it's that's not that's not right it's an erasure I feel so

[00:20:19] angry about this you know the governor jb pritzker he's kind of thrown the review board onto the bus

[00:20:26] I think it so to give you a sense uh the chair Donald Shelton resigned recently not clear if it's over

[00:20:33] this but a woman named uh Miller lian miller who was the one who recommended brands release for

[00:20:42] some reason and also conducted his hearing where he did get the parole she also has resigned

[00:20:47] I think the prisoner review board messed up here they they say that they didn't have the information

[00:20:53] that smith was even seeking an order of protection against brand and they normally wouldn't

[00:20:58] get that information well that's the case I feel like this should be a pipeline of information

[00:21:03] if the person that you're thinking about releasing is suddenly doing all of this

[00:21:08] like I I don't know why there isn't more of an effort to monitor the person and make sure

[00:21:12] they're adjusting frankly that feels like it would be a good thing even for people who are being

[00:21:17] paroled and are not doing anything bad because you're ensuring that they're getting the help and

[00:21:21] support they need to reactimate to the outside but in this case you know it's it's like

[00:21:28] I feel like that should there should be like uh an emergency light blinking if if somebody's

[00:21:35] starting to escalate and show violent tendencies again like I don't know why there's no pipeline for

[00:21:40] that it should be taken seriously especially i'm gonna say this like maybe this is controversial

[00:21:47] but in my opinion especially in domestic violence cases and stalking cases and this isn't about

[00:21:55] someone doing this because they're having economic hardships this is about a man trying to control

[00:22:01] and threaten a woman who tried to get away from him like that's not something that's there's

[00:22:09] something more deeply embedded there and I feel like those cases need to be treated with care

[00:22:14] and maybe people should not be released unless you're very sure that they are rehabilitated

[00:22:21] enough to be a safe person in society yeah it's just horrifying i'm just reading this and I just

[00:22:29] feel so bad for this mother who is just trying to do everything and it's just going up against

[00:22:35] a brick wall again and again and the horror that she and her family went through on that

[00:22:40] morning just makes me sick i just i'd there needs to be especially in cases that involve domestic

[00:22:49] abuse or violence like this there needs to be a way to get her the resources she needs and to have

[00:22:56] people take somebody in that situation incredibly seriously when they're saying this person is threatening

[00:23:01] me absolutely i mean i don't know what to say other than i agree with you completely and this is just

[00:23:11] it's an eraging it's it's it's another failure yeah this little boy should be here right now

[00:23:18] living his life you should not have been brutally killed in this way by some you as failed yeah

[00:23:25] and and and this guy kris city brand sounds like he frankly shouldn't have been paroled in the first place

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[00:25:20] anyways so I think you have another case in Illinois I have another case in Illinois

[00:25:27] this one my source for it was a story from the guardian oh I should say mine were CNN and Chicago

[00:25:34] Georgia being my source for this story coming up is the guardian and because it's a relatively

[00:25:41] recent story there are things we don't know we don't know the names of the victims we don't know

[00:25:47] the possible motives but this story jumped out at me and I'll tell you why after I share this

[00:25:57] this is something involving a man named Christian Soto and this took place in the town of

[00:26:04] Rockford Illinois which is I think about an hour and a half north west of Chicago I used to have

[00:26:11] family in that area so I've been in Rockford this man Christian Soto did a home invasion into a

[00:26:20] woman's residence and stabbing her he attacked her she got away from him and fled outside

[00:26:30] where she was assisted by a good Samaritan Soto went outside as well and he stabbed the good Samaritan

[00:26:39] and then over the course of about 20 minutes I believe he went on a stabbing spree for a lack

[00:26:48] of a better phrase he ended up stabbing reports indicate he stabbed 11 people

[00:26:57] four of whom died and it's possible that number might go up oh god so it's unclear why he did this

[00:27:08] one of the people who passed away I should mention it was just a postal service employee just doing

[00:27:14] his job so it's unclear why he did this but Soto has been arrested and is facing charges

[00:27:24] and to me it's like we're at a state in the world where violence and the fear of violence threatens

[00:27:33] to take so much away from us we've had mass casualty events like outdoor concerts we had people

[00:27:41] murdered at a super bowl parade a couple of months ago we talked about it on this program

[00:27:48] and so that means that in the back of our minds when we take plate when we take part in some of these

[00:27:54] events we have to worry about things that might happen and then here we have a case where a woman

[00:28:00] was just literally in her own home and she can't even be safe there violence even impinges on

[00:28:08] that and then we have this mailman just doing his job I say mailman it was a postal service

[00:28:13] employee I don't know if it was a male or female these are just people living their lives and they

[00:28:18] have to deal with the threats of violence and rockboards nice place so it's it's it's upsetting so

[00:28:28] I'll be following this one because I'm curious

[00:28:31] why this happened there's never a good reason there's no reason sodo can supply that would make this

[00:28:42] makes sense it sounds like at least according to the independent he's immediately blaming

[00:28:48] least weed which like no I don't there there needs to be I think part of I mean certainly

[00:29:00] I don't want to get into a political thing but like there's we have America has a unique problem

[00:29:05] with gun violence then again this is a this is a knife spree so it speaks to some you know you're

[00:29:11] not gonna you're not gonna stop a knife spree by legislating around guns obviously I think that

[00:29:18] I think that there needs to be some sort of massive moon shot effort around mental health in this

[00:29:26] country not to you know it's not about stigmatizing people with mental illness I'm not even saying

[00:29:32] that it's necessarily people with diagnosable mental illness doing this but I I feel like there is

[00:29:38] a we're at a crisis in terms of some of the stuff when it comes to you know people harming

[00:29:46] themselves or harming others and maybe if we had more easily accessible and affordable resources

[00:29:54] that there could be preventative measures done before things got to that point

[00:30:01] that's outrageous and I think what you said about our society becoming so a wash in violence

[00:30:07] and it feeling like it just sometimes seeps into everything is absolutely on point

[00:30:13] with that said let's move on to our final case this week this is a case out of Nevada and eight

[00:30:21] news now has done some excellent job covering this case this case involves a murder that actually

[00:30:33] took place back in august and there was an arrest made in the case actually fairly

[00:30:41] quickly this the murder victim is a man named Aaron Chavez and he was murdered by a man named

[00:30:50] Gino Julian Julian was actually picked up and arrested when he was sleeping in his car in the desert

[00:31:00] and a burned body is about 10 feet away and the murder had not taken place there but

[00:31:10] he was I guess transporting the body and his car got stuck so we called for a tow truck

[00:31:16] and he was asleep he said and he was sleeping okay now we do know something about the background

[00:31:24] and the possible motivations here Chavez the murdered man is accused by some people

[00:31:36] of taking advantage of them financially of ripping them off in different schemes

[00:31:41] and so this I suppose is what motivated Julian to go after him and and commit this murder he said

[00:31:57] at one point in some tax that it was street justice man and now what we're talking about it now

[00:32:03] is that there was just another arrest in the case a man named Stefan Jakobov Jakobov it turns out

[00:32:12] was actually texting with Julian the murderer while the crime was happening urging him

[00:32:20] break his face do this do that and apparently Jakobov was even watching a live stream of the murder

[00:32:30] as it happened and again the motive for all of this is street justice and I think

[00:32:40] I've not gone into all of the intricacies myself I don't know if the murdered man Mr. Chavez

[00:32:48] actually committed these crimes he was accused of or didn't or if he took advantage of people

[00:32:53] or not or what kind of penalties he might have been facing but I do know in life there are many times

[00:33:03] when people do you dirty and it gets into your head and it kind of takes over and the fact

[00:33:10] of the matter is the best revenge is don't let people get into your head just forget about them

[00:33:18] and move on it all possible if you just start focusing on grievances against you and focus on trying

[00:33:26] to get revenge or street justice it escalates and you become a different person ultimately

[00:33:33] and you could lead to a situation like this where whatever ratification you imagine you got by

[00:33:40] committing your street justice you're going to pay a very steep price for it I think it's telling

[00:33:45] that one of the texts mentioned respect or this is how it feels to be disrespected yeah I think

[00:33:50] there can be a very toxic focus on respect obviously respect is a good thing we should respect

[00:33:55] each other we should respect ourselves it's not but what it what it becomes what it becomes in some

[00:34:02] of these contexts is more of like an assault on your honor and your honor is not something that's

[00:34:07] like some sort of intrinsic goodness inside of you it's how other people perceive you it's very

[00:34:12] superficial it's on the surface and the fear is if I if I disrespect Kevin then others will be

[00:34:19] emboldened to disrespect him that's the fear perhaps that's an understandable psychological impulse

[00:34:25] to have that thought but it kind of just becomes this like tit for tat nonsense of like in order

[00:34:31] to reclaim my honor and reclaim the respect that others have for me I must use violence

[00:34:37] to sort the situation out rather than going through appropriate channels such as reporting it

[00:34:44] to law enforcement or filing a civil suit or dealing with it in any number of ways and the

[00:34:50] ironic thing is if you're concerned about respect and you do something like this I can assure you

[00:34:56] that there's nobody reading about this case and think oh boy I really respect Julian Jabokoff

[00:35:01] they really handle this well yeah no they look ridiculous also I mean yeah people who are

[00:35:07] incarcerated are like disrespected by society maybe maybe in some cases unfairly so because people

[00:35:14] can make mistakes and come back from that and recover from it but you know you're putting yourself

[00:35:20] in a situation where you could be locked up for a very long time and it just doesn't it doesn't

[00:35:24] really make sense to to people who are thinking about it rationally obviously when you're in a

[00:35:28] situation and you're feeling emotional perhaps some of that logic goes out the window but

[00:35:33] I guess the answer is violence is never the answer unless you are defending yourself from violence

[00:35:40] unless you are being attacked in which case yes you should you should probably be violent to fight

[00:35:44] them off but and if someone has done something that upsets you and you're still thinking about it

[00:35:50] you're letting them win just walk away and get on with your life if at all possible

[00:35:56] it is it's sad to see something like this because you just feel like you know I think you did

[00:36:04] another revenge case a while ago where somebody was taking revenge at plotting a murder they did not

[00:36:09] successfully completed about avenging his mother from a drunk driver and in some cases you can really

[00:36:14] understand being very angry with someone or not forgiving them or being just irate or wanting

[00:36:20] some sort of accountability and taking it to to the proper authorities but yeah when it comes

[00:36:26] to actually doing something yourself it's just it's just it ultimately it just harms you I mean

[00:36:33] the person doing it and I think most people realize that but make some people have a hard time realizing

[00:36:38] that are we ready to wrap up with my awkward apology yes what is this shocking apology are you

[00:36:45] don't think it's shocking are you gonna do a are you gonna do like a YouTube video where like my

[00:36:50] mistake and like cry on on camera or something no I'm not yeah there it's gonna be more dignified

[00:36:59] than that well not really so I think we've said we really if you see us in public and you recognize

[00:37:07] us we love it call the police now we love it when you come up and say hello and talk with us that

[00:37:15] always makes our day we love talking to people who listen to the show I mean that quite sincerely

[00:37:21] and usually when I'm out and about I'm with Anja who not only is a beautiful woman but she's very

[00:37:27] charming and articulate and so well you're very sweet to say that I wouldn't necessarily agree

[00:37:34] well so this means if someone comes up to us Anja can do most of the talking and all I have to do

[00:37:38] just kind of smile and nod which I am very good at that I am excellent at the smiling and nodding

[00:37:47] so last week uh and speaking of things to get into your mind I've been thinking about this way too

[00:37:54] much but so last week we were at a there's a place in Indianapolis I think it's called the garage

[00:38:01] or something it's a food court it's kind of like a food court at a shopping center only it's cool

[00:38:07] it's a good place uh and Anja and I have a place to go soon and uh we were stupid and

[00:38:15] doing like they were like major sporting events going on and so there's apparently some sort of

[00:38:21] basketball thing going on there's a basketball thing and also like Indiana Comic Con or something

[00:38:26] there's a lot of people in town so this place is packed and there's like no tables and we're

[00:38:31] in a hurry and uh I have my my food I'm standing I'm holding a bottle of coke and this kind of

[00:38:41] awkward little paper tray that has a fish sandwich and some chips in the other hand and Anja

[00:38:48] has disappeared into the crowd to go get her food which is not a fish sandwich and I'm sitting

[00:38:54] there as how can I eat my fish with with like one hand I think I don't think I can eat this sandwich

[00:39:00] one handed without there being a sandwich emergency something's gonna fall and so this is the way

[00:39:07] my mind works and so well so I'll break off a piece of the fish and just eat it that way and as

[00:39:14] I'm doing that I think boy do I look stupid thank god Anja's in the crowd and not seeing this because

[00:39:22] I'd never hear the end of it and then someone comes up and recognizes me and says hello and everything in

[00:39:30] my mind I'm just focusing on I look ridiculous I just look like the fool and I he says he enjoys

[00:39:37] the show and I thank him and I say we really appreciate you listening it was very nice he to come up

[00:39:42] and say this and then he goes away and then uh it's been haunting me because I feel I should have

[00:39:48] engaged with him a bit more I feel I don't think I was rude I thanked him for his kind words

[00:39:54] but I feel like he didn't get his due so I apologize because I was obsessed with this fish sandwich

[00:40:02] situation and I was fully aware I looked the fool and then Anja comes back a few minutes later and I

[00:40:08] tell her what happened and she said oh what was his name and I said well I didn't think to get

[00:40:12] his name and she said well well what does he think about what's going on in the Delphi case

[00:40:16] I said I didn't think of that either so apologize I'm apologizing to you uh I'm calling you fish

[00:40:24] sandwich man even though I was the fish sandwich yeah you were the fish sandwich man this man was an

[00:40:28] innocent bystander so I'm sorry I was preoccupied with the fish and did not give you the attention

[00:40:35] you were due certainly if Anja had been there she could have been I have no doubt

[00:40:41] Anja is such a graceful articulate charming woman she could have had my fish sandwich on the tray

[00:40:48] she could have had her food on a tray three or four bottles of soda for some reason and still

[00:40:53] been able to hold a excellent conversation I probably have dropped it all and made a fool myself

[00:40:58] and somehow ended up covered in sushi but that that's just me I think you give me too much credit

[00:41:03] I think you're too self-deprecating but but thank you to this man who listens to us we really appreciate

[00:41:08] it and uh and I'm sort of glad this has haunted me all week yeah we're awkward people

[00:41:15] we're we're very awkward people so if you ever see us um I think I've definitely like had

[00:41:24] situations where like I probably I don't know I've been told that I have um you they say you

[00:41:31] know they there's a resting bee face right yeah but I've been told that I have resting panic face

[00:41:37] I remember one of my friends in college told me like Anja I always see you power walking around I

[00:41:42] didn't wear glasses at the time so I couldn't really recognize people I always see you power walking

[00:41:47] around campus with your backpack power walking brushing past people just looking terroristrican

[00:41:54] and he said I think whenever I see that I think something terrible has just happened or

[00:41:59] something terrible is about to happen so I was like a harbinger of doom at times in my life

[00:42:05] and so I would say that um yeah so I think sometimes I probably look crazy and and just look like I'm

[00:42:13] in a middle of a panic and I'm probably just like living my life so don't worry about that if you see

[00:42:17] it you know yeah I have like a resting food slub face because I'm just like

[00:42:23] shoving pieces of fish in my face instead of using the bread which is why I was given the bread

[00:42:32] I just look you know there's an episode of sign-fed with like George is like caught on camera

[00:42:37] like eating a messy food at a sporting event and so I was too preoccupied with the fish

[00:42:43] and I should have engaged with him more and asked him some questions about himself

[00:42:48] oh well I we appreciate this man and thanks for coming up and yeah I'm sure

[00:42:53] you're a little self-deprecating Kevin so I'm sure it wasn't that bad

[00:42:56] I think I don't think I was rude but I don't think I was engaging as I should have been

[00:43:02] well I will just say that I think you and I are what happens when two George's skin marriage

[00:43:08] I feel like we're both George Kastanza trying to pretend not to be you know because we you know

[00:43:14] are trying to engage with the audience and not be super friggin weird all the time but it's very

[00:43:19] it's a struggle it's a daily struggle yeah no there's a food thing though I'll mention that I think

[00:43:26] we'll embarrass both of us oh god what's gonna which is that separately onion I have had a food issue

[00:43:34] oh yeah it has been the concern of our family and loved ones all of our lives people in elementary

[00:43:40] school lunch would point that to me we both eat ridiculously quickly the captain from true crime

[00:43:46] garage can attest to this he was horrified by what we did to those tacos and he only publicly made

[00:43:52] fun of Kevin for that because he's a gentleman and he respects women and I appreciate that

[00:43:57] I appreciate the captain for that but he knows that I was eating those very quickly too anytime we go

[00:44:03] to a restaurant and a get as a sort of restaurant we get something from a waiter or waitress

[00:44:08] the waiter or waitress would give us our food and then they'll come back to later to ask if we

[00:44:12] need anything else and they said you're already done what's wrong with you they say and we say

[00:44:16] we're so sorry we don't know we eat like starving dogs yeah it's pathetic it's really embarrassing

[00:44:22] I don't know what I've done it on my life yeah same always done it and then we met each other

[00:44:27] and we're like done at the same time true love so amazing we have a lot of very strange similar habits

[00:44:38] like that so it worked out but and many of them are not embarrassing or shameful yes several of them

[00:44:43] are not embarrassing or shameful but it's definitely yeah so now you guys all know our secret

[00:44:50] chains so again I'm sorry I did not engage more with this gentleman and if you ever see me by myself

[00:45:00] just say Kevin try to be more like on you no don't say that don't say that

[00:45:05] in that context not no I think you're probably fine and you're being a little hard on yourself

[00:45:10] and you forget that I'm capable of being incredibly awkward too but what people should know is

[00:45:15] you can always come up and say hi if we're awkward it's definitely not you it's completely us and

[00:45:21] you know that's that's just the way we are but but we always love to chat with people and engage

[00:45:25] with people who listen to the show because we appreciate you and it's really nice to me you in person so

[00:45:31] you know sometimes I'm like I just like I don't know why people would want to spend time with us

[00:45:36] like you know listening to our thoughts but it's an honor to be able to you know your time is

[00:45:41] precious and the fact that you are willing to spend some of that time with us makes us very grateful

[00:45:45] so it's always really nice to meet you so never feel like you're gonna bother us we're gonna be

[00:45:50] mad or you know if you see us at Kroger or whatever you could say hi don't or the is it called

[00:45:55] the garage food court I think it's the garage it's it's in an old really beautiful art deco Coca-Cola

[00:46:02] building situation it's really cool it's a cool place they got some cool stands there and

[00:46:08] definitely we enjoy eating there although it was pretty chaotic and we were yeah last time we

[00:46:14] had we had no idea there was like a major sporting event we're not in touch with the cultural events

[00:46:20] of the city and the night I'm walking downtown and somebody's all excited and said hey boilers

[00:46:24] and he like gives me a fist bump oh yeah that was and I return and say oh yeah those boilers I

[00:46:28] had no idea what I was talking about your dad went to Purdue that's the embarrassing thing you

[00:46:33] should know the what the boy it is embarrassing that I have family the winter Purdue no no no don't

[00:46:38] start a war with the boilers makers Kevin we have we always enjoy coming up to Lafayette we've been at

[00:46:44] Purdue many times I'm this king there's a stupid rival right between IU and Bloomington in Indiana

[00:46:50] I went to IU the fact of the matter is both school are both schools are excellent in different way yeah

[00:46:55] they are yet Purdue has more of the engineering edge I feel like the kind of sciences and then IU

[00:47:01] the humanities they kind of they do different things but uh but no I mean I knew the boilers makers

[00:47:06] that's so funny I remember that we were on the street and guy just came on to fist bump Kevin I

[00:47:10] guess he he could sense that your dad went there that was probably it's probably it and on that note

[00:47:17] thank you so much for listening apologies again to fish sandwich man no you are the fish sandwich man

[00:47:22] we still is this hope you have a great week yes everyone have a safe and wonderful weekend thanks

[00:47:28] again bye

[00:47:35] thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet if you have a tip concerning one of the cases we

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[00:47:49] unsolved crime please report it to the appropriate authorities if you're interested in joining

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[00:48:17] any support special thanks to kevin tyler greenley who composed the music for the murder sheet

[00:48:24] and who you can find on the web at kevantig.com if you're looking to talk with other listeners about

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