The Delphi Murders: The Secret Messages of the Delphi Defense’s Brain Trust: Part One: "Zone of Pain"

[00:00:00] Content Warning. This episode contains profanity as well as discussion of alcoholism, drug abuse, violence, suicide, and the murder of two girls. Members of Richard Allen's defense team have worked hand in hand with internet cranks in order to sway

[00:00:17] the public narrative of the case, smear perceived enemies, and raised thousands of dollars through a shambling badly organized fundraiser that left even insiders confused about where the money was actually going. That is not just an educated guess on our parts. We know all of that because

[00:00:35] we've just spent weeks going through thousands upon thousands of Twitter messages proving a direct pipeline between the YouTube cranks and people closely affiliated with the defense team. They shall months worth of contact between known internet cranks and actual defense team members.

[00:00:52] Suffice to say, this group has gotten up to some weird stuff. And we're going to talk about that today. It's important to talk about because it underscores why diligence is important in a case

[00:01:03] where one side is desperately attempting to spin events. It's also significant for the wider true crime space. When you have commentators who are not bound by journalistic ethics, you get creators willing to sell out their platforms for money and perhaps more importantly, access.

[00:01:19] Access brings about power. It brings about a feeling of ownership in a case. It brings about better content. When a commentator is after access, they know that the second they offer anything other than the gentlest criticism, the door gets slammed. So they're incentivized to spin.

[00:01:35] Our thoughts go back to a July 3, 2024 tweet from the Prosecutor's Podcast. In it, Retin Alice expressed concern about the current state of true crime, namely the quote, legal and PR teams are well aware of the power of social media influencers to shape the narrative.

[00:01:54] And that's only going to make it harder for the average listener to figure out who was giving them their unvarnished opinion and who was on the take unquote. One of the comments beneath that tweet was of great interest to us. Somebody replied, quote, it is a massive concern

[00:02:10] moving forward as it's not going away anytime soon. And it goes both ways as far as the prosecution and the defense end quote. So who said that the commenter was none other than Illinois

[00:02:20] attorney Bob Mada, who has a YouTube show called Defense Diaries. Mada seems to at least generally recognize this as a concern. Perhaps it's just that Mada knows a whole lot about this first hand, at least according to the messages we've seen. You see, in the communications,

[00:02:37] we're going to unpack today. Mada, Alan's appellate attorney, Karen Weineke, lawyer for the lawyers Michael Osbrook and a group of social media cranks, strategize over fundraising, give each other tips on jumping on lives to spread their talking points, discuss alliances with influencers. And they write up messaging strategies,

[00:02:56] discussing how to make their cause of supporting an accused child killer palatable to the masses. Oh and Mada and the others called Judge Gullah bitch a lot. We obtain these direct messages from the unraveling's Twitter account. And we obtain them legally through the owner of that account.

[00:03:12] As we said, we've read through thousands of messages. We cannot possibly share them all. In addition, they're often confusing. There are many different group chats. The main one with all the players is called the due process gang. People are often talking over each other.

[00:03:26] People are responding to earlier messages. So we will be quoting certain portions, but parts will be edited lightly for clarity. We seek to contextualize these conversations when possible with things like dates and information about wider conversations.

[00:03:39] But oftentimes, the words speak for themselves. And of course, we will only be delving into the messages, the thoughts, the opinions, the legal strategies, the rhetoric that we find particularly newsworthy or notable or important for reaching an understanding of the case and the players

[00:03:56] within it. These messages show a rather bizarre pattern over time. At first, we believe we were watching a group of attorneys get swayed by malicious internet cranks. Looking closer as time went on, we realized that we were in fact viewing a group of attorneys

[00:04:13] manipulate and rile up troubled internet figures who are looking for community and a sense of purpose. We'll be doing two episodes on these messages for now. There's a lot to cover. We'll discuss how this amounted to essentially a machine that was part public relations

[00:04:28] clearinghouse and part opposition research shop and part profane bizarre obscure message board. We'll cover why Bob Moda thinks we should be in his zone of pain for criticizing attorney David Hennessey publicly as opposed to doing what Moda did and privately deriding him as old behind

[00:04:43] the scenes. We'll get into what really went wrong with the fundraiser for Allen's legal experts, including why this group wanted to hide a YouTuber's involvement in the cash grab. We'll talk about all the hatred, resentment and suspicion this group has for Judge Gull,

[00:04:57] Carroll County prosecutor Nick McClendon and the family of victim Liberty German in this case. Before we begin, let's go over the cast of characters you'll be hearing directly from in these episodes. Kara Weineke is an Indiana attorney specializing in appellate and post

[00:05:13] conviction representation who has been part of the defense team for Richard Allen. She practices law with her husband Joel. She represented Allen filing a limited appearance in the murder case on November 2, 2023 quote, limited for the purpose of requesting

[00:05:29] transcripts necessary for an original action in quote. She represented Allen in two original actions, one of which was denied by the Indian Supreme Court after Judge Gull made some corrections to the record and one of which led to original defense attorneys Andrew Baldwin

[00:05:46] and Bradley Rosie coming back on the case judging from her Twitter account. She does not believe we went to the moon and has seemingly never met a conspiracy theory she didn't love. Michael Osbrook is another Indiana attorney who was part of the defense team. On February 7, 2024,

[00:06:02] he filed into the case in an appearance quote limited to the litigation of the motion for summary denial of the state's verified information for contemptuous conduct end quote. He represents Baldwin and Rosie and is an attorney for the attorneys. He has served as

[00:06:17] an adjunct professor for Indiana University Morrer School of Law, although he told us his class on habeas law was slated to not be renewed. We interviewed him on the show about his work on

[00:06:28] federal habeas cases and to get his thoughts on the Delphi case. Bob Mada is an Illinois attorney who now primarily works on defense diaries a YouTube show and podcast. He works with his wife attorney Ali Mada. They worked on one high profile homicide case in Nebraska that they

[00:06:44] lost. Mada enjoys a notable increase in YouTube views when he covers Delphi. Angela Szilowski is a North Carolina licensed clinical social worker associate. She has also worked as a social media moderator for a YouTuber who has spread conspiracy theories and rumors

[00:07:00] in the Delphi case. In our earlier episode called The Delphi Murders, The Unacceptable, we covered some of Szilowski's actions, including her saying that we should be shot, claiming to have hired a private investigator to stalk Prosecutor McLean,

[00:07:14] and behaving in abusive and threatening ways online. Willing to that in our show notes. Szilowski unsuccessfully sued Carroll County over a law that didn't apply to the circumstances and also believes there is a widespread conspiracy cover up in the Delphi case.

[00:07:28] She was a part of the YouTube group The Unraveling, although she did not own the channel. We regard her as an internet crank because of her abusive tactics and pension for spreading falsehoods. Courtney Parsons is a dog food company employee in Texas. Along with Szilowski, she was

[00:07:44] a part of the unraveling, although she did not own the channel. We regard her as an internet crank because of her abusive tactics, including saying that certain people should be killed and her pension for spreading falsehoods. Nicole Miller is a West Virginia medical scribe.

[00:07:59] She posts about true crime cases on social media but often seems to spread misinformation. Given what we've seen publicly and in these messages, we think it's safe to label her as an internet crank as well. David Hennessey is an Indiana defense attorney. He also served as

[00:08:12] an attorney for the attorneys along with Michael Osbrook. Matthew or Matt Hoffman is an in-office assistant for Allen's defense team, although he is often touted as a private investigator. Richard Allen of course is a former CVS worker who is accused of murdering Abigail Williams

[00:08:28] and liberty German in 2017. He is said to have confessed repeatedly to those crimes. His main defense attorneys are Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rosie. As a note, these messages are all from Twitter or X. Mada was using his defense diaries account in the group chat. Presumably,

[00:08:45] his wife Ali has access as well but his correspondence all referred to him as Bob. Weinecke used her law firms handle but frequently talked about Joel and I and was referred to as Kara. Osbrook messaged everyone under his IU habeas account. The unraveling account is

[00:09:00] the most complicated. Paul Mannion, the channel's owner, Slablowski and Parsons all worked on the unraveling but Parsons appears in the messages under her own personal account. Mannion told us that Slablowski almost exclusively utilized the unraveling's Twitter account for the messages

[00:09:16] for participating in these group chats and the other participants in the chats referred to the unraveling's account as Angela. For simplicity's sake, we will refer to the messages coming from, say, Osbrook's account as Osbrook. We reached out to those mentioned in these episodes for comment

[00:09:32] with the exception of Slablowski. The last time we attempted to reach out to her for comment, she sent back an impied legal threat and made it clear she did not want us to contact her

[00:09:41] in the future. For everyone else, we offered them a chance to make written statements, clarifying their actions, thoughts and behaviors, and we would be happy to include those statements, if any, in future episodes. As some of these more off the cuff, perhaps even downright vile,

[00:09:57] messages come to light, we imagine the argument will be that they're just messages between a group of pals, but it is worth noting that these group chats, most notably the due process gang chats, portray a team functioning as a unit to meet specific work objectives. With all

[00:10:14] that said, let's take a look at the secret messages from the Delphi Defenses Brain Trust. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist. And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting,

[00:10:30] interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet. And this is The Delphi Murders, the secret messages of the Delphi Defenses Brain Trust. Part one, zone of pain. Speaking of the due process gang on March 26, 2024,

[00:11:31] Bob Mada wrote, collectively we know more about the case than anyone other than trial counsel. And they seemingly put that knowledge to use. Most of that revolved around marketing and public relations. In other words, selling the defense's talking points to the public,

[00:11:48] selling the idea of Richard Allen's innocence, of a widespread conspiracy to railroad him. This group proposed and launched social media campaigns, coordinated a fundraiser, provided advice to the attorneys on messaging, and conducted opposition or opera research, which in politics involves digging up dirt on opponents. We'll get to

[00:12:09] the opera stuff later. That mostly involves workshopping and aing on smears of people like Judge Gull. The due process gang was a great place to get updates on upcoming filings. On March 17, 2024, Weineke gave the gang a heads up about a juicy filing hitting the following day.

[00:12:26] She said that she asked Baldwin to text her updates from the hearing. Frequently, she shared insights on writing briefs and trial strategy, which we'll get to throughout these episodes. Frequently, the cranks would make suggestions about questionable tactics to

[00:12:41] employ in the case. And all of those went unchallenged. In one exchange, Miller recommended that Parsons smuggle a recorder into a Delphi court session. She claimed, quote, I will transcribe each day and say I was there and have photographic memory, unquote. After Osbrook posted some pictures

[00:12:59] announcing a trip to Delphi on April 10th, 2024, Parsons even asked him to go to a liquor store for a quote, Psyops mission, unquote. The attorneys would frequently answer the cranks legal questions, but the interactions were very much a two-way street.

[00:13:14] The attorneys often turned to the internet cranks for case related research help. On March 15, 2024, Osbrook asked for recommendations on new YouTube lives to review in order to get information on the case. On March 17, 2024, Osbrook asked about when the internet

[00:13:30] buzz started around the so-called Westerman leak, which of course involved Andrew Baldwin's close associate Mitch Westerman leaking crime scene photos and other discovery materials to people on the internet. On May 7, 2024, he asked if Libby, one of the victims in the case, had pierced ears.

[00:13:48] Over the course of the messages, for some reason, Osbrook became fixated on YouTuber Anthony Greno, and he would frequently watch Greno's lives. Osbrook would ask for recommendations on what to say and what lives to attend and whatnot. It's interesting to see a law professor

[00:14:04] get sucked into the online wormhole, doing battle with grifting YouTubers with small audiences. Nobody seemingly thought to ask if any of this was a good use of his time. On April 6, 2024 Osbrook spoke of going on a live to review a quote,

[00:14:19] some of the evidence we have that the discovery leak came from elsewhere, and that Nick McLean committed perjury in his verified contempt thingy. Gotta get some permissions and put the things in order once the permissions are had. It was unclear who's permission he was asking.

[00:14:35] Yeah buddy, Mada chimed in at 6.13pm. I always knew that shit was orchestrated by the state. Osbrook backtracks a bit from there. The evidence we have is not conclusive and I don't know what all was actually

[00:14:51] admitted as evidence of the contempt hearing, but I put it all together with Brad, saying he never had seen at least one particular picture, and the total picture is pretty interesting. The messages also show a decent amount of theorizing. On March 22, 2024 in the main group, Mada wrote,

[00:15:10] I don't believe for one moment that the girls were killed at the scene where the bodies were found. I told Matt that we must locate at least one of the searchers that claimed they searched that

[00:15:19] area during the initial search on the 13th. That would blow the entire case against Rick Apart. And to be clear in that message when Mada referenced Matt, that appears to be a reference to Matt Hoffman, who is often described as being a key investigator for the defense team.

[00:15:37] Weineke and Osbrook would spur the rest of the group on with claims that the case against Allen was nothing, merely a conspiracy of bad actors. But in one March 18, 2024 message to the group, Weineke seemingly gave the game away. She indicated that Baldwin and Rosie could quote,

[00:15:53] make pursuing Richard Allen so unpopular the state has no choice. Along with many of you, we have long wondered why Baldwin and Rosie were pursuing a trial by public opinion in YouTube rather than an acquittal before the actual jury. This gives us some insight on their mindset perhaps,

[00:16:12] or at least gives us an insight into the feelings of their most trusted advisors. Now to a certain extent, the mainstream media were swallow talking points embedded in filings and garbled those back out to the public. But we've noticed a wider shift in sentiment on

[00:16:27] this case so it is not clear that their strategy of using filings to get information out to the public is working. Now let's take a look at how this YouTube nonsense becomes official defense business. The fundraiser would make a good case study.

[00:16:43] As a reminder, Hennessy claimed to have started the fundraiser in the case so that the team could pay for experts. The idea spread by the defense team was that Judge Gull wouldn't give them funds for the experts they need to prove Richard Allen innocent.

[00:16:57] Now since then of course it's come out that Judge Gull is asserting that Baldwin and Rosie wanted essentially blank checks for experts and that she merely wanted them to adhere to a process involving invoices. This is quite a bit more complicated than their narrative of a

[00:17:13] judge unilaterally denying the defense all funds for experts. But this did not stop the internal scramble to milk thousands of dollars from the public. On March 25th 2024 at 8 43 a.m. Weineke wrote to the main chat, guys we're in crazy town officially going to need everyone's

[00:17:33] help this week. Hennessy is going to crowd fund for experts. I'm concerned that this might make it so Rick is no longer indigent but Hennessy doesn't think so and I guess at this point who cares

[00:17:44] smiley face once I get the link I'll share but they want money for experts end quote. It is also worth noting that Weineke did not mention that David Hennessy may not have been the person who technically started the fundraiser. That would cause him

[00:17:58] headaches later but it would take a few days for that to come out in a private chat with Sadlowski on March 29th 2024. Mada identified the true creator is Ali a YouTuber who started unsolved

[00:18:11] crimes uncovered and again to be perfectly clear this Ali is not Ali Mada who is Bob Mada's wife quote I have no idea who that is but Sadlowski writes I didn't either Mada wrote she reached

[00:18:26] out to me two days ago telling me she had convinced Hennessy to come on alive and he wanted me on it unquote. The details of exactly how this Ali from YouTube came to help Hennessy create the fundraiser

[00:18:37] remain somewhat unclear to us although they prompted much speculation in the Twitter groups over the rest of the fundraiser's lifespan Sadlowski and the others would find themselves consistently thwarted by this Ali they gripe that she had quote zero experience or education in doing in

[00:18:53] the first place end quote and that the revelations that a YouTuber started the fundraiser would harm their cause especially a YouTuber that Sadlowski described as a quote certified lunatic end quote Miller wrote to Parsons and Sadlowski quote Rick is the face of the fundraiser as far as I'm

[00:19:12] concerned no one needed to know right now that a YouTuber started the fund should have remained thinking Hennessy created it knowing a YouTuber started the fund is probably the worst thing to put out no matter what YouTuber it is end quote of course none of these concerns prompted

[00:19:28] anyone to go public or shut the fundraiser down and start a new better organized one in order to ensure that donors would be protected the optics of that would have been far too problematic on

[00:19:39] March 31st 2024 in the chat with Miller and Parsons Sadlowski called Ali a quote fucking weird blonde psychopath end quote she said she tried to flag the issue with Hoffman but he was too busy with trial preparations this was a major problem because the fundraiser not surprisingly

[00:19:58] immediately ran into serious issues before we get into that let's talk about the auspicious beginnings though upon winekies initial announcement everyone sprung into action the machine was revving Sadlowski immediately proposed a sort of live aid-esque function with appearances from

[00:20:15] Mada Miller Parsons Sadlowski and of course quote crowd favorite end quote Osbrook quote just a thought as to how we could push this most effectively slash get in front of it and get a factual and responsible narrative out about it she wrote meanwhile the link that Hennessy emailed

[00:20:33] Mada to the fundraiser did not even work the fundraiser also had the wrong quote office addy as Mada said that was some serious foreshadowing but in the meantime there was work to do Sadlowski wanted to workshop the fundraiser page she said the fact that the page included Hennessy's

[00:20:53] law office was good and gave it quote inherent legitimacy but she thought they should have officially pitched it or discussed it first quote I'm telling you I know they don't have the time to prioritize this but PR and messaging is more important than ever right now Sadlowski wrote

[00:21:10] Mada went even further calling the fundraiser quote sloppy and arguing it should have been run by the due process gang first first of all the picture of Allen was all wrong they needed to find something more innocuous something that didn't scream alleged child killer Mada said he

[00:21:27] asked Allen's wife Kathy for a better pic Miller suggested that the picture they used be the one that Allen's attorneys had included in their filing to get Allen moved out of Westville prison

[00:21:37] you might remember that that image showed Allen in a lilac polo holding a small dog very non-threatening people love dogs Miller wrote a few other options got posted Mada singled out the one he thought

[00:21:50] had the best lighting meanwhile Sadlowski started looking through her camera roll and began posting several pictures of Allen and his wife Kathy I love them and I wanted to share she said she posted a

[00:22:03] picture of Kathy Allen laughing and playing pool commenting she's so cute with a crying emoji she described an image of the Allen's kissing their daughter on her wedding day as her quote

[00:22:13] fave fave end quote picture Mada said he tried to push kinesita write a note on the letter head confirming that he was the official organizer and quote do a clip unquote even though he

[00:22:26] was quote still under gag unquote until the judge's next ruling promoting the fundraiser would be important especially given how scammy the page appeared at first why Nikki felt they could use that to portray themselves as scrappy underdogs quote do we all agree this is a crappy link

[00:22:43] she asked maybe we can somehow use that to our advantage look y'all it's a crappy picture of Rick it doesn't tell you why we're doing this but it's legit if you want to give

[00:22:54] click through and ignore the hurried nature time is ticking end quote Mada wrote back quote love that Cara we can edit the language in the body as well as the picture unquote but Mada also had a word of

[00:23:07] warning for the rest of the group quote we can't scream he's innocent because we don't know all the evidence and what we do know hasn't been vetted he wrote now that hasn't stopped Mada

[00:23:19] from proclaiming Alan's innocence on court TV you know when I when I just look at it on its face only knowing what we know now uh I believe that he's innocent at this moment though

[00:23:30] Mada wanted them to consider the optics Mada wrote quote the people who believe he's innocent will already be donating it's the people that we can get to understand that the constitution matters fair trials matter for all involved and that this is bigger than just one case

[00:23:47] there was an epidemic of disparity to our criminal justice system which has existed since inception this case is just allowing us to shine a light on it because people are watching those are the ones we are after unquote for a time despite its early hiccups the fundraiser

[00:24:02] appeared to be a roaring success there was talk of collaborations and videos to promote the fundraiser lives to raise more money excitement over a fox 59 article that promoted the fundraiser even more and talk of having other true crime creators like Grisela share the link to get it

[00:24:18] to go nuclear and of course everyone was working to get the word out a man named Luke Nicholas even helped winekie to put together a brand new web page by April 16th 2024 Miller indicated to the

[00:24:30] main shot that they had helped to raise a little over 40 000 but then everything fell apart now again it's important to remember in this next section when we refer to someone named Ali

[00:24:43] we are referring to a specific youtuber who is not bob mada's wife who is also named Ali this is again a completely separate person also named Ali on March 27th 2024 winekie published an ominous tweet about how the team was aware Richard Allen's fundraiser was no longer accepting

[00:25:03] donations that morning she messaged the group that she emailed quote henny and texted Baldwin and Rosie to tell him to check his email for days the group labored over getting the fundraiser back online recriminations were hurled at both crowdfunding website pay it to which was hosting the fundraiser

[00:25:22] and a payment processing company's stripe confusion set in had Hennessy even set the fundraiser up in his own name or was it in the name of the mysterious Ali who really had access to

[00:25:34] the money winekie even hopped on the phone with Ali at one point to try to figure it out parson's emailed her from her work email no one felt they were getting a straight answer when hennessy got a

[00:25:45] qr code for the verification process he told winekie the wheel would just spin and spin and spin over the next few days Miller and parson's became suspicious did someone steal the money

[00:25:56] who was this Ali person anyway bob mada came back with a witty rejoinder quote y'all are not fully understanding the part about the fact that david is old that's a real thing technology has lapped

[00:26:11] him three times over him quote again that's a reference to david hennessy mada also wrote quote there is nothing off about it david has very little tolerance for this shit is all

[00:26:24] on quote on april 1st 2024 in the main chat winekie wrote quote henny has now imploded he sent me a curt email acting like i knew that he wasn't able to get the mobile link and ask for access to his

[00:26:39] phone camera this is the first time he has said this to me so now he's quitting i guess that means he's just going to let the money go back to everyone wtf end quote in the main chat on

[00:26:51] april 1st 2024 parson's asked the group what stripe needed hennessy to do she also asked quote has anyone here spoken to henny in the past 24 hours proof of life unquote bob mada replied quote i have

[00:27:10] he's fine irritated but fine end quote winekie proceeded to joke quote guys we're going to have to delphi case solve before we get david back on track end quote ultimately pay a two ceo tom

[00:27:24] has then sent a detailed email to hennessy explaining that the problem was with stripe hennessy needed to verify his identity any payout could not occur until that happened and it's he also need to answer some questions about how he could prove

[00:27:40] that the money raised would actually go to legal experts on april 2nd 2024 at 2 47 pm winekie announced in all caps that the fundraiser was back the good times did not last on april 19th 2024 sotlowski announced that someone had posted an image of an error message regarding the fund

[00:28:02] that same day lucnicholas the man who helped set up an iteration of the page said he heard directly from winekie who relayed what she heard from hennessy quote the donation account has officially been deemed a restricted aka not allowed business by stripe unquote we just

[00:28:20] like to say that given that thousands of dollars were on the line it is bizarre and frankly troubling that there was so much behind the scenes chaos without any of these attorneys and other professionals deeming that they might need to be honest with their audiences

[00:28:35] and the donors about what was going on instead they hid the ball in order to avoid any public criticism and again and again the attorneys in this due process gang complained about david hennessy and in other instances they even expressed doubts about decisions made by bald

[00:28:51] win and rosie but they also often demonstrated rather intense reactions to any sort of outside criticism directed towards them or any other member of the defense team for instance on march 15 2024 moda went to the due process gang to voice his thoughts on our criticism of some of

[00:29:10] hennessy's filings to be absolutely clear in this message when he refers to they he was referring to ania and myself at 12 59 a.m moda wrote quote when they come after a legendary attorney who has

[00:29:25] created a legacy and earned respect like insolent little school children on their shitty podcast they have entered my zone of pain unquote we don't know what a zone of pain is we fear we may have been in one for the past several months without even realizing it now

[00:29:43] the attorneys criticizing a hennessy amongst each other mocking his age technological ineptitude etc that was apparently fine but we were to be sentenced to moda's zone of pain for publicly critiquing his work in a high-profile case this level of hypocrisy makes little sense unless

[00:30:00] you view this consortium of attorneys and online figures as a public relationship then it all fits in pr branding and reputation are everything it appears that our characterization of hennessy's filings and behavior conflicted with the portrait that this team was trying to paint of him

[00:30:18] as a legendary attorney whose work was always to be held above question the thing is we can have a level of respect for hennessy's past accomplishments and still feel his recent output

[00:30:31] has been suboptimal at times there's no conflict there nor do we believe anyone in this case is above criticism it's silly to be wishing pain upon people who are simply suggesting that one side could be doing a better job instead of shooting the messenger who pointed out the

[00:30:47] emperor's nudity maybe take your guy to men's warehouse or something but of course when bluster and bravado are such an important focus as opposed to anything of substance then images everything and conflicting reports start to look like an existential threat similar

[00:31:03] hostile reactions continued as the fundraiser got underway on april 4 2024 the due process gang chat there was another discussion about us that same day we'd aired some critiques about the fundraiser and moda's promotion of said fundraiser namely we said that we felt it was

[00:31:22] crass that he was using a hashtag created to memorialize two children to promote the fundraiser of a man charged with murdering them it seemed like an utterly unnecessary and boundary crossing move and it upset the families of the victims in response to this discussion moda posted a gif

[00:31:41] of a person saying i don't give a fuck he breezley noted that he told us that he was in quote mexico until monday in quote and that he would then respond quote in kind he then posted a picture

[00:31:56] of deck chairs in a pool quote y'all don't travel enough it's everything he said to the other group members on social media moda has frequently derided those who seem to set a specific standard

[00:32:11] in true crime and then try to hold him to that so let's check out moda's own standards and see if he clears the bar on november 22nd 2023 in his defense diaries facebook group he posted a long

[00:32:23] screen about how members of the gallery the prosecutors podcast facebook group were claiming that things were getting toxic in his space we'll read excerpts from that and again this is bob moda speaking in his facebook group quote we started this group with one basic principle

[00:32:41] that must be followed at all times and it's simple be kind use your words in a productive and thoughtful fashion i believe an excellent rule of thumb to follow is that if you are typing a comment that

[00:32:52] you would never say to someone that was standing right in front of you then delete the comment because it's not appropriate in quote and again those were the words of bob moda well let's see

[00:33:03] how he did because the due process gang favored some pretty extreme language especially when it came to discussing judge francis gull of course is the judge overseeing the richard allen case on march 27th 2024 bob moda called judge gull quote a ratchet bitch in quote he had previously

[00:33:24] been complaining that she almost wrecked his latest quote vacay in quote he concluded with quote fuck gull in quote it is unclear if bob moda would be willing to say to judge gull to her

[00:33:39] face that she is a ratchet bitch and fuck her well maybe if she ruined a fourth vacay for him miller and said lousy also favored the term bitch especially with the epithets raggedy and old

[00:33:52] we counted five instances of them calling her a bitch although there may have very well been other ones that we missed to be very clear this was not a one time thing where somebody lost

[00:34:01] their temper parson's on march 31st 2024 got so angry that she told the gang she wanted to reach through her screen and rip judge gull's lips off a strongly worded filing was even compared to baldwin dragging quote that bitch through 13 pages end quote said lousy a licensed clinical

[00:34:21] social worker associate had a few unofficial diagnoses for judge gull at various times in several chats she said the judge was a narcissist a quote full-blooded egomaniac end quote and someone with quote cluster b personality disorder to the thousandth period end quote she became

[00:34:41] particularly fixated on the idea without evidence as far as we can tell that judge gull is an alcoholic quote the clinician in me wants to know if she's taking up drinking she told miller and

[00:34:53] mada on november 7th 2023 quote i'm not even kidding she's unhinged two days later she gloated that she imagined hennessy was driving judge gull to drink in the main group on april 30th 2024 sedasque wrote quote she's got to be drunk i'm telling you no one is this brazenly

[00:35:13] self-destructive end quote in another chat to winicky in person she wrote quote she may be the worst person alive in every way i'm almost certain she's an alcoholic it seems now she's even handing

[00:35:25] out the press credentials herself smfh or shaking my fucking head she's a megalomania control freak end quote later that morning sedasque told winicky in persons that she had to go off and work with a patient in a therapy session nonetheless she still found some time to add yet

[00:35:42] another message quote i hate her omg end quote apparently for winicky and osbrook and even bob mada prior to his raggedy vacay wrecking bitch complaint none of this language was enough to

[00:35:57] prompt them to voice concerns over the rhetoric or leave the group in fact in many cases their comparatively milk toast comments seem to serve to egg the attacks on even on the more polite side of that spectrum michael osbrook's descriptions of judge gull centered around witches he frequently

[00:36:16] called her miss galt spelled with two ls miss amira galtch is the kansas counterpart of the wicked witch of the west in the 1939 film the wizard of os she's a nasty lady who wants to kill

[00:36:28] a young girl's dog osbrook was seemingly so enamored of this joke that he used it on march 15 2024 march 17 2024 march 31 2024 and on may 20 2024 on april 3 2024 osbrook hinted to the group that something was coming quote likely to cause the dispatch of the allen county flying monkeys southward

[00:36:52] in quote mada joined in with one choice jiff of margaret hamilton's famous portrayal of the wicked witch from the wizard of os while sedasque also even adopted the nickname miss galtch after giving an interview to fox 59 about the case osbrook told the gang that he quote gave miss

[00:37:08] galtch strickland right between the eyes end quote in the article he characterized gull's actions as a quote constitutional violation in motion end quote on march 18 2024 winicky wrote to the main group about her assessment of the judge comparing gull to a poorly trained dog

[00:37:26] quote this is her way of asserting her authority my dog humps people the judge does this in quote so again this is an indian attorney comparing a judge ruling against her favorite side

[00:37:39] to a dog humping people in an attempt to assert dominance it is so interesting to us that the attacks on gull often strayed from her actions in the case even amongst the attorneys every

[00:37:50] decision she made was processed through the lens of her malice her innate evil it seems reasonable and possible to critique a public official without resorting to gendered insults bizarre violent fantasies unprofessional diagnoses and repetitive classic film references one could

[00:38:08] you know just focus on the law it's a bit more boring although there's only so many times you can call someone a raggedy bitch without it getting pretty old on march 17 2024 salowski asserted that criticisms of her and parson's ought to be added to the list of things

[00:38:23] gull was responsible for after salowski and parson's were announced as defense witnesses for the contempt hearing they claim to have received widespread harassment salowski blamed judge gull for uploading emails to the record which is very much required and part of her

[00:38:38] job by the way she said she urged winicky and hoffman to quote raise the issue end quote and wondered if judge gull was a white supremacist to be clear parson's and salowski are both also

[00:38:50] white quote gull has already set a precedent where as soon as a witness is named it's an open season and free pass to totally assassinate their character and credibility before they even step on the stand salowski told the main group quote she's literally putting cyber hits out

[00:39:07] on them end quote judge gull of course was far from the only public official to receive widespread hate and condemnation from the due process gang carol county prosecutor nicholas mcleland was also a frequent target although we should note that it was judge gull who bore the

[00:39:25] brunt of the attacks in a message sent to miller and moda on october 30th 2023 salowski turned her attention to mcleland quote nick mclellan needs a beatdown god i hate these people end quote

[00:39:38] moda responded quote as i told you all i love you today end quote said laski shared at least one bizarre sexualized thought about mcleland on november 7 2023 and a message between her parson's and miller she fantasized about mcleland's snorting cocaine in order to celebrate the removal of

[00:39:57] baldwin and rosie or the quote defense daddies as she called them quote you think he's doing blow off judge gull's thunder thighs she asked that was not the only strange sexual talk about mcleland

[00:40:10] in one joking message to the main group on april 3 2024 bob moda referred to mcleland as quote big dick nick end quote when it came to winicky and osbrook they preferred takedowns around their perceptions of mcleland's intelligence on march 18th 2024 to the main group winicky told

[00:40:29] everyone that the fact that the state dismissed the kidnapping charges against allen quote confirmed to me that nick mcleland is an idiot only logical explanation my sister said he probably didn't want the jury to have an option at a compromise verdict maybe but who compromises on two murdered

[00:40:44] girls end quote on may 17 2024 in response to a comment from miller calling mcleland a quote idiot michael osbrook said he had to quote agree that nick was mcleland is an idiot and for it no oh so many reasons but being a prosecutor he's now used to getting whatever

[00:41:03] he wants just for the asking just the way it goes in most trial courts must have forgotten his public defender days for the moment i will attribute this all to mere idiocy skull duggery

[00:41:15] may be emerging though it is much harder to figure out what miss gulch is up to and why in quote osbrook's response is typical of the attorneys in this group the process was simple and very easy to catch in these messages absorb the already inflamed language from the

[00:41:31] internet figures mirror it back with an intellectual and slightly less profane gloss profit the internet figures were all flattered to have real life defense team members agreeing with them and more resolute than ever in their beliefs that they were dealing with evil

[00:41:46] wretched public officials who frankly deserve harm you can see how osbrook's response was quoted above worked on slodowski she wrote back to him quote this keeps me up at night it can't just be personal dislike or revenge like at this point there's no way right in quote now

[00:42:06] miller sedalsky and parson's are all adults they're responsible for their own behavior they're certainly responsible for what they say and what they do that being said having looked through all of these thousands of messages it is hard to see this as anything other than

[00:42:22] manipulation on the part of these attorneys we feel that this appears to be three educated attorneys essentially manipulating troubled and uninformed people in order to get them to attack their perceived enemies in the case we've spoken by the criticisms against judge gull

[00:42:40] and about criticisms about proscure nicholas mcleland but these adversaries of the defense attorneys were not the only ones targeted a may 7th 2024 article from the carol county comet written by reporter Amy Graham mccarty came out about the delay of the trial it contained

[00:43:00] quotes from allen county's chief public defender william libredo who previously served as allen's defense attorney along with robert scrimman they were both appointed by judge gull after she removed baldwin and rosie libredo has been a major public supporter of allen doing numerous press interviews

[00:43:17] where he said he believed in allen's innocence with the qualifier that he was only on the case a short time and therefore didn't get that into discovery anyways in this article libredo included a few very mild criticisms of rosie's performance at the may 7th 2024 pretrial hearing there

[00:43:33] rosie told the judge she knew nothing of the case quote i didn't really see any animation from the prosecutor or judge mr rosie did the vast majority of the talking for the defense

[00:43:44] without knowing what had been happening since i got off the case it seemed a bit aggressive telling the judge she didn't know anything about the case end quote in the due process gang chat so lousy posted screenshots of the story adding what a prick lol parson's replied

[00:43:59] by calling the reporter a quote fucking bitch cunt end quote she also indicated that she believed that the reporter was secretly me ania kane and proceeded to criticize libredo for thinking he's quote bob mada a bit more time passed before the attorneys weighed in that night michael osbrook

[00:44:17] wrote quote libredo should really not be flapping his lips his goal worship undermines any credibility he might pretend to end quote the following morning on may 8th 2024 at 7 39 am

[00:44:30] winicky replied quote libredo is a beta male he waits until after a fight is over to come in and talk smack he should be embarrassed end quote so this is very interesting because within this group

[00:44:42] it is not enough to go out and publicly proclaim allen's factual innocence the true believer must also worship at the shrine of bald wooden rosy and the shrine of hennessey and winicky

[00:44:54] and osbrook and mada for that matter and this worship is what you need to be truly enlightened even mild critiques are kind of blasphemy that culture emphasis on the first syllable seems less than ideal if the intent is to gain accurate and necessary feedback now it may not

[00:45:13] be too surprising for this group to declare perceived enemies like judge gull in mcleland and even perceived lukewarm allies like libredo as acceptable targets of derision and suspicion but we were surprised at how much they went after liby's family these are after all family

[00:45:28] members who have been grieving the loss of their 14 year old sister granddaughter and daughter since 2017 for sidlowski the anger towards liby's family goes deep in a chat with parson's and miller on january 5th 2024 at 1 33 p.m she wrote quote i'm honestly so fucking grossed out with

[00:45:48] the virtue signaling in delphine and borderline resenting the victim families she labeled anyone posting quote smiling happy photos of the victims before they died end quote as quote so fucking irritating end quote and a pine that it was simply leverage in a surprising aside she asked quote

[00:46:10] am i an asshole that's my question lma fo end quote i just want to hop in here for a minute and point out i find it especially striking that she is criticizing people for posting pictures of the

[00:46:26] victims of this murder case while earlier we saw her basically fangirling over pictures of richard alan who of course is the man accused of murdering those girls it is really bizarre to be so triggered

[00:46:41] by photos of murder victims in happier times so that's you of course reserved much of her ire for liby's grandmother becky in the same side shot with miller and parson's she claimed that becky has quote flying monkeys end quote who have been controlling the case quote literally using

[00:46:59] mafia and gang tactics to influence public perception end quote given the fact that the case has been marked by abusive behavior directed towards this victim's family since the jump this seems like a flawed premise just factually i'll also say that kevin and i at times have been

[00:47:17] on the opposite side of the family when it came to things that we were calling for for instance liby's family was pretty public about how they did not want the probable cause of a david in the

[00:47:27] case released kevin and i publicly said that the pca should be released we experienced no mafia tactics as a result of taking a different stance than the victim's family sedalski though described liby's family as an all-powerful clan that have been quote treated better than the dead fucking victims

[00:47:45] end quote it's frankly unclear what that means given the girls are in fact dead but it's safe to say that sedalski's conclusion is ultimately that the family consists of quote ellie puppets from day one end quote of course the attorneys were also well aware of sedalski's feelings about

[00:48:01] the families to the main group chat on march 28th 2024 sedalski wrote quote everything i learned makes me suspect family fuckery more and more not necessarily actual murder related but there's some dark shit there end quote sedalski was not alone miller frequently joined in like a

[00:48:22] one crank greek chorus to validate her claims and of course mada tended to agree with sedalski's conclusions on november 5th 2023 sedalski told mada and miller that liby's relatives were the quote prince

[00:48:38] and queen of carol county end quote and so we're able to ensure the trial took place in carol county which of course was judge gull's decision she wrote quote the fucking white glove coddling and enabling and barf it's really gross i 100 agree with reasonable accommodations for full victim

[00:48:57] participation but that is not what this is end quote the social worker who is frequently touted herself as a victims advocate went even further quote families shouldn't be anywhere near the legal proceedings end quote that is a pretty remarkable statement we wonder what the relief

[00:49:17] would be the families in this case are already gagged we have never seen them call for richard allen to be convicted we have never seen them do anything egregious around this case they seem like they're

[00:49:30] watching this play out just like everyone else but seeing these internet cranks froth at the mouth about the family is almost like watching a guilty conscience emerge is if the mere presence of

[00:49:42] those who lost children is enough to shame those who would exploit the case instead of sitting with that sense of shame though the move is always to claim victimhood and further attack the true victims

[00:49:55] in this case in the main group on march 21st 2024 mada and sedalski were concurring that they didn't believe the crime was committed by someone on methamphetamines mada does come in with

[00:50:07] a 949 p.m thought that there was a theory that quote it was committed by dudes that are cogs in the meth ring machine and re being protected end quote then mada gets into it quote i'm afraid to say

[00:50:22] debt owed by family but end quote and then he adds quote anything is on the table as far as i'm concerned in quote parson's objects that quote killing children violates most biker rules end quote mada doubles down on his theory saying he's talking about vinlanders having witnessed

[00:50:43] mada operate up close will be interested to see if he will follow his own philosophy and tell liby's family the reasons he thinks they can't be taken off the table as suspects or accomplices given that there is a man currently charged with killing liby and abbey

[00:50:57] awaiting trial who has apparently confessed multiple times liby's family members are president all the hearings so if he chooses to show his face there should be an opportunity for him to do this

[00:51:07] we'd love to learn his reasoning too of course the most likely outcome of all of this is that in a few years or so after it's all over he'll simply slither up to them at crime con or

[00:51:16] something and simper about how much he admires their advocacy before asking them on his pod and of course he will hope they don't remember how he suggested that the possibility of them being

[00:51:27] involved in the death of their loved ones should still be quote on the table in quote sometimes the verbal attacks on others led to somewhat violent imaginings we should say that in person and in writing we specifically warned bob mada about anjala sudlowski and courtney parson's

[00:51:45] those conversations occurred in november of 2023 we told mada that they had made violent threats towards us and others and that they lack credibility in this space mada replied by very much obfuscating and claiming to have not seen such behavior although he did end up declining to

[00:52:02] attend their groundswell event after we reached out we were getting to groundswell a bit more in the next episode but essentially it was a low quality low turnout rally for richard allen in our experience bob mada seems to bristle at anyone criticizing his choice of associates

[00:52:17] but frankly we saw us reaching out is giving a fair warning to a person we then believed to be well-intentioned and who must just be ignorant of the true nature of his new friends looking through

[00:52:28] this due process gang chat we see that we were incorrect and perhaps naive to think that mada knew nothing about these people he knew exactly what they were but he also assessed that they

[00:52:39] would be useful to him anyways in the due process gang chat on march 17th 2024 sudlowski quote when this is all over and rick is a free man and quote she would head to canada to punch

[00:52:51] a specific case follower in the mouth parson's offered to drive and then followed up with requesting quote one good cunt punch end quote now if you've listened to our episode the unacceptable you know that such rhetoric is not out of the ordinary for sudlowski or parson's

[00:53:08] that being said it is typically not the way people talk in professional legal circles and i think most professionals whatever their field would probably pause if they were suddenly involved in a conversation about a work matter with people talking like this but at no time did we

[00:53:24] see the attorneys in the case encourage the others to calm down in the wake of such comments we would be remiss in not mentioning the many many many many personal attacks on us that appear

[00:53:36] in these messages we do not wish to hide the ball frankly at this point we don't care even a whit about being criticized by people we do not respect have these chats all been complaints and

[00:53:48] insults about us we'd have declined to cover it it's not newsworthy however given that we are covering it we will get into this a bit we feel it demonstrates something about how the defense team prefers shooting the messenger to accepting critical but sincere feedback naturally

[00:54:06] these chats include numerous slams on our physical appearances parson's calls us the two potatoes a tweet envisioning that we have headlights earns an enthusiastic ouch from osbrook and mada on march 15 2024 writes quote their foe moral superiority makes me want to project

[00:54:23] all vomit into kevin's fucking thinning mop of hair end quote on may 16 2024 mada wrote quote kevin green fuck is an attorney in name only dude knows fuck all about the law in quote

[00:54:38] quote we think that when people have to resort to ad hominem attacks that is a sign that they have very little of substance to say as parson's wrote on april 1 2024 at 10 34 p.m. quote when

[00:54:51] you can't attack the brains and logic you attack the human end quote that's amazing and almost insightful naturally there was also a lot of conspiratorial thinking demonstrated in these messages they falsely claim that ania and i are secret law enforcement plans so blousky

[00:55:09] repeats to the main group and her private chat with an indiana real estate professional that ania has a particularly daunting pedigree she wrote quote ania's parents could purchase a battleship if they felt like it end quote i mean maybe the classic naval combat game battleship

[00:55:28] but frankly we're more of a settlers of katan kind of family to the main group so blousky wrote that ania and i are quote more dangerous than people give them credit for their frumpy weird vibe is

[00:55:39] by design so people dismiss them as harmless ania's family is one of the most powerful in new york in quote actually our frumpy weird vibe is something we've desperately tried to change throughout our lives without success and have just accepted sadly at this point

[00:55:54] and i'm sure my family will be pretty excited to know that we've reached such stature in addition to all that while talking about having a journalist investigate ania and myself solowski shared the theory with miller and parson's that quote someone we know has suggested that they

[00:56:11] have a powerful wealthy funder who also funds bread and alice from the prosecutors in quote now that is not true but if it turns out that a shadowy billionaire is listening and you're looking for a

[00:56:24] podcast to back you can reach us at murder sheet at gmail.com but in all seriousness there is something almost touchingly naive about building up one's enemies into sort of an unbeatable two-headed monster that controls law enforcement the media prosecutors offices and the legal and

[00:56:43] court systems of indiana of course these folks also believe that ania and i are somehow simultaneously bumbling stooge's with all the shabbiness of inspector colombo in none of the brains as we discussed in past episodes so blousky likes to drag ania's family into things so

[00:57:02] none of this is really surprising we simply find it disturbing the professionals like moda osbrook and winakie we're sitting around watching an obviously disturbed woman spin out insane theories about ania's family without like giving any indication whatsoever they were the least

[00:57:17] bit skeptical i think you've lost the plot when you're this focused on some random reporters you happen to not like we shouldn't take up this much space in these people's lives i wouldn't even say

[00:57:28] we live rent free in their heads or that were the landlords i'd say that we've somehow unwittingly engineered a soviet style collectivization of their minds the scope of which has not been seen since the days of joseph stalin it's for the attorneys it is helpful to not along

[00:57:44] with such unhinged attacks ania and i thread their goals because we are neutral voices they cannot control or intimidate we value our integrity in our audience more than we value access from anyone

[00:57:56] that is apparently very dangerous for them it shouldn't be not if they had a strong case it shouldn't matter but they behave as if it matters very much osbrook called us quote f-ing

[00:58:09] dangerous end quote on april fifth 2024 now that is true we are dangerous because we are neutral voices we can say we've criticized everyone in the delphi case at different times we've taken stances counter to the victims families law enforcement the defense attorneys the judge

[00:58:26] and the prosecutor's office we tell you what we think based on our opinions and our understanding of the law and the facts of the case that is very f-ing dangerous for people who behave as

[00:58:36] if their case will spontaneously combust and burn to ashes if anyone casts anything less than an adoring glance its way so the only way to deal with that is to attack attack attack these folks

[00:58:47] seem to not care about the truth in fact at this rate if the truth took human form and walked into the room with them they'd probably call her an ugly bitch in these group chats we

[00:58:58] would characterize moda in particular is riling up the internet cranks about us as an attorney and a youtuber with a platform he confirmed legitimacy on the cranks by agreeing with them and associating with them again this is despite the fact we told him repeatedly that sedalski

[00:59:17] had made comments that we should be shot and that other members of her group have engaged in all manner of stalking and harassing behavior in this next quote we will read from moda when he

[00:59:27] refers to them he's talking about ania and myself quote again this is bob moda quote i'd love nothing more than to out them they are two of the biggest clout grabbers i've ever laid

[00:59:38] eyes in quote then another minute later quote they are as duplicitous as you can get in quote they then proceed to speculate that ania and i were in some way responsible for the leak

[00:59:50] of crime scene pictures and the resulting suicide of r in response to sedalski calling us evil and depraved with nothing to lose moda replies at 116 a.m that ania and i do in fact

[01:00:03] have something to lose quote their business that they are working so hard to build in quote sedalski came back with quote well yes true but in terms of moral parameters they aren't

[01:00:14] encumbered like the rest of us with you know truth decency conscience end quote at 121 a.m moda replied quote yeah those who have no moral compass and lack the capacity to feel remorse or guilt for

[01:00:27] their actions are in fact dangerous people in quote on december 19 2023 in the chat with miller and sedalski about a quote boring as shit end quote episode of ours moda wrote quote i

[01:00:41] blame them more than anyone for the shit that is happening right now you should sick joe louis on them end quote so joe louis is an australian youtuber who has called for the park in delphi

[01:00:51] dedicated to the memories of abby and liby to be bombed he frequently engages in disturbing and violent rhetoric that pushes the bounds of even the worst actors on youtube we think moda statement is revealing here instead of being rightfully shunned such a youtuber is actually

[01:01:07] considered a valuable tool by this group because he can serve to attack one's enemies when you're dealing with pure evil after all any response is justified we will say this on a strictly personal

[01:01:19] level we've been disappointed by moda for some time we've not hidden that in fact we have criticized his actions publicly on our program we've also extended grace at times when we felt he

[01:01:31] may have made an honest mistake like when he falsely claims that a court hearing included evidence of odinous kidnapping other girls in indiana all that being said not once have we ever saw it out

[01:01:45] anyone who has stalked him who was called for his death or anything like that and then egged those people on because those are not things that are okay no matter who the target is regardless of your

[01:01:58] feelings about a professional colleague or rival there are certain lines that you simply do not cross and moda has crossed them as we mentioned we criticized moda in our episode covering the

[01:02:11] fundraiser on may 7th 2024 in the main group parson's asked if kevin and i had quote some sort of heads up that this hearing wasn't really going to be worth it to attend end quote now we miss the may

[01:02:24] 7th 2024 hearing because of a scheduling conflict we couldn't change but we would remind parson's and everyone else that frankly about half of the hearings in this case aren't very substantive calling

[01:02:35] us turds moda wrote quote i like to think it's because they were terrified to be in my presence after their shitty little attempt at a hit piece on me in quote he added quote maybe kevin's long

[01:02:48] awaited haircut was scheduled for today in quote parson's responded with quote maybe they've been trapped under their bookshelf for the past four days while the dogs eat away at their feet end quote moda replied quote that's exactly what was coming next in quote it's interesting that moda

[01:03:06] characterized our episode as a shitty little attempt at a hit piece remember in that episode we accurately reported that he had hijacked hashtags created by the victims families in order to fundraise for the man accused of killing them we also offered our view that

[01:03:20] this was shameful behavior that was unnecessary in order to advocate for richard allen and some people seem to agree with us including apparently bob moda who in a may 7th 2024 tweet publicly apologized saying that he would no longer use the hashtag here's a quote from that long

[01:03:37] tweet quote our deepest apologies to the families if our actions inadvertently caused stress it was never our intention our hearts and efforts remain dedicated to ensuring justice is served with integrity and respect for all affected hashtag delphi in quote of course his

[01:03:58] statements to the due process gang make that apology seem rather insincere at worst or suspect at best if us pointing out that his actions harmed a victim's family was just a shitty

[01:04:10] little attempt at a hit piece in his mind then he ought to have stood on principle or was he truly sorry but behind the scenes simply boasting to save face in front of his friends in the due

[01:04:21] process gang it's really perplexing we do wonder about moda will he attend the next few hearings now that all of this is out about his very real actions and statements behind the scenes

[01:04:34] and by that we mean his statements about the judge about liby's family etc all of this is a far cry from his public persona the guy that urges everyone to be kind if we had to predict it

[01:04:48] we would say we imagine he will probably keep going the validation provided by these internet cranks may prove to be too tempting to pass up on on march 19th 2024 at 7 32 p.m sidlowski sent a screenshot of bob moda's defense diaries account following her account on twitter adds

[01:05:07] to the spank bank she wrote a spank bank for those of you who are unaware is a term to describe memories and images start away in one's mind for the purposes of being recalled for later

[01:05:19] masturbatory purposes sidlowski seems to be joking that she is so excited about getting this follow from moda that it was worth placing in her own personal spank bank the good feelings were definitely a two-way street though on november 8 2023 at 10 35 am in the chat with

[01:05:37] miller and sidlowski moda responded to sidlowski's defensive message that she was not a lunatic despite the rumors with the following quote i certainly didn't think you were a lun angela i can detect intelligent people and justice warriors immediately and recognize both of

[01:05:55] those things about you immediately in quote this was followed we note by a blushing smiling emoji on april 29 2024 at 8 39 am sidlowski sent moda a private message asking if she could call him in

[01:06:10] 10 or 15 minutes moda wrote back quote yeah let me jump in the shower real quick we are streaming read trial so i gots to get ready in quote much ink has been spilled about parasocial relationships between creators and their audiences but we think the implications

[01:06:27] are fascinating within true crime about strange bonds that conform between creators like moda and the sort of super fans like sidlowski they're willing to cultivate and exploit and the accolades and praise didn't just shower down on moda either on november 9 2023 in

[01:06:42] response to a message from moda about how hennessey was quote pissed af sidlowski wrote quote mm that's what we're hearing too and that's just how i like him hennessey about to be my sugar daddy

[01:06:54] if he isn't careful keep it up mr fancy suit end quote moda concurred quote he's a bad motherfucker in quote in our earlier episode we called moda a shill for the defense oxford defines a shill is

[01:07:10] a quote accomplice of a hawker gambler or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others in quote essentially in modern parlance it's a person who boosts another individual or a group without disclosing his connection to that group an example i've used

[01:07:29] before centers around walmart a company i used to cover as a journalist now if i'm a journalist reporting on walmart and i go on television and say hey there's self-checkout capabilities are pretty good and here's why and that's fine i'm independent that's perhaps just my opinion

[01:07:45] born out of expertise experience perhaps looking at competitors self-checkout lines now that changes if i am somehow secretly getting scoops and access from walmart based on the understanding that i am part of their team and will therefore tow the company line

[01:08:00] and i go on tv and say hey there's self-checkout capabilities are pretty good and here's why and i don't disclose that then i am a shill then i am essentially an unofficial spokesperson who's not telling the audience and being honest about my true connections to walmart

[01:08:14] that is a problem that is unethical mada did not like that we called him a shill for the defense in this case but let's see how he described his role in the case in his own words to his

[01:08:26] internet crank friends and to alan's own defense team members this is mada quote i'm in a unique position because the former defense team trusts me and i can unequivocally state they absolutely believe that rick is actually innocent as does kathy in quote on november 8 2023

[01:08:45] he went even further and again this is bob mada quote i'm trying to inform and sway the country one person at a time that this is a railroad job of epic proportions i've got the street cred and the

[01:08:58] professional experience to be the public voice for rick and brad and andy i give zero fucks about clout as i know none of this crew does and as i tell nicole i rely on y'all popping off when needed

[01:09:12] is i stand behind you all is the measured voice of reason it's a perfect balance and balance is what is needed in situation wherein a man's life is at stake in quote so mada prefers to describe

[01:09:24] himself as the voice for richard alan brad rosie and andrew baldwin that's definitely a nicer way of putting it than shill but he has given away the game here he will leverage his links

[01:09:34] to the defense team and his own professional credibility to be the quote public voice for rick and brad and andy end quote and put out their talking points on demand he may give quote zero

[01:09:45] fucks about clout end quote but that level of access would certainly be a boon for any creator and in order to maintain his own facade of professionalism and credibility of course the real dirty work would be left to the web underlings who worship him

[01:10:00] certainly sounds like shilling to us in our next episode we'll delve more into carol winicky's role in all this offer many more bizarre claims from the cranks and we will discuss a proposal offered

[01:10:11] by the group that sounds a little bit like jury tampering at least to us thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet if you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover please

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