The Murder of Josette Wright: Her Sister Speaks Out Against Bone Valley: Part One

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[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_01] I'm Kevin and today we will talk with the sister of a murdered girl who just had her loved one's case covered on the season of Bone Valley, which started today. Content warning. This episode contains discussion of the rape and murder of a young girl. On October 3rd, 1994, 12-year-old Josette Wright vanished. She was a little girl living in Carmel, New York in the Empire State's Putnam County. Putnam County is located in New York's Hudson Valley. Josette Wright's

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_02] Josette went out after school one afternoon and never returned home. For months, Josette's mother Susan and sisters Shelly and Chloe endured the hell of not knowing where she was, whether she was alive or dead.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_01] On Thanksgiving Day of 1995, the Wright family received devastating news. Josette was dead. Hunters had discovered her skeletal remains. The evidence strongly indicated a violent death, a sexually motivated murder.

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02] Two local drug dealers, Anthony DePippo and Andrew Krivak, were arrested and charged with Josette's rape and murder. They were first convicted of those crimes in 1997.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01] In 2012, DePippo received a new trial because his attorney had failed to disclose that he had previously represented an alternate suspect named Howard Gombert. DePippo was again convicted. After a jailhouse snitch came forward and claimed Gombert had made incriminating statements, both DePippo and Krivak ultimately received new trials. In 2016, DePippo was acquitted. In 2023, Krivak was acquitted.

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02] Now Josette's case is being covered on the fifth season of Bone Valley. The show is perhaps best known for covering the murder of Michelle Schofield and the conviction of her husband, Leo Schofield. Bone Valley is a podcast from the network Lava for Good. That network also runs the Wrongful Conviction podcast.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01] They're calling this season Bone Valley, the Devil's Quarry. The first two episodes actually came out today, June 10th, 2026. This season, the writer and host of the show is Paul Solitaroff. Lava for Good describes him as a longtime contributing editor at Rolling Stone magazine.

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02] Solitaroff also covered the murder of Josette Wright in a August 22, 2021 feature story for the magazine. The Lava for Good website claims he's been working on reporting this case for five years.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_01] Well, before we knew about Bone Valley's latest season, we had been in touch with Shelly, Josette's oldest sister. We talked to her about her sister's case. We intended to cover it. When we learned about the Bone Valley episodes, we listened to them. We were shocked by some of the claims they made and by some of the choices they made with our coverage.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_02] Namely, Bone Valley did not include any members of Josette's family in their show. We have found that they have also omitted a lot of information, so we invited Shelly on the murder sheet to share her side of it and address some of the claims made. In talking to Shelly, we will take you through the ins and outs of Josette's case, through the evidence, and through the trials. Some of these things did not come up in Bone Valley's coverage.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_01] More importantly, we will reframe this story as Josette's. She, after all, is the victim. She was 12 years old when she was raped and murdered. Her life was taken away from her far too soon. She deserves to be remembered. We want you to know who she was, as she is remembered by someone who loved her dearly, her older sister.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02] My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet. And this is The Murder of Josette Wright. Her sister speaks out against Bone Valley, part one.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02] First of all, Shelly, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_03] I do too. Thank you, Anya and Kevin. I appreciate it too.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_02] Can we just talk about why we're talking to you today? What is going on? Maybe tell us about your connection to a case that was recently featured on season five of Bone Valley.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_03] The case is on my sister, Josette Wright, who was brutally raped and murdered in 1994. Her body, her remains, were found in 1995, 13 months later. And this is all about her. But Bone Valley is really putting all the emphasis on her killers.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01] Did the creators of Bone Valley, as far as you know, did they reach out to you?

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_03] No, they did not. I didn't reach out to myself.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02] And so you all did not participate in this in any way, did you? Not at all.

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_01] And one thing about that is interesting is that when people listen to this Bone Valley show, there are some things said about your family, including you by name, that aren't very positive. And how do you feel about them putting things like that out there without giving anyone from your family a chance to rebut it or respond to it?

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_03] Well, I feel like there is going to be a podcast that goes and does a deep dive on a very, very sensitive topic about a 12-year-old girl's murder, my sister. And they want to have both sides represented. They did a poor job because as far as I know, that's only one side. And it's there's always two sides to the story, not one that tells the truth.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02] This whole series of Bone Valley this season is hosted and seemingly written by a writer named Paul Solitaroff, who is with Rolling Stone. Now, my understanding from reading his previous Rolling Stone article on your sister's case is that he had previous interaction with your mother. Is that correct?

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. He had previously contacted my mother beforehand, called her at her residence.

[00:07:15] [SPEAKER_02] There was some interaction. Is this true with your between your mom and maybe someone working for the podcast, but no one really remembers who that person was or what that entailed? Correct. So there's no participation, though. I mean, having listened to these episodes ourselves, like you guys are not at all in it. There's no statement from you. And there's not even any acknowledgement that there was an attempt to get your side of it and that you declined to comment. So I think does that kind of spell it out?

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_03] Yes, that's actually exactly what it is. It's basically an anonymous source named Rachel giving their account of what they believe happened. And they are not a family member. They were not the accused. So I don't know why their account is taking so heavily. And I don't know why it can't be disputed. It should be.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_01] Before we get too much further, the overriding thesis, for lack of a better word, of this season of Bone Valley is that the two men who were convicted of your sister's rape and murder are innocent and that the crime was actually done by someone else. Do you agree with that assessment?

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_03] I 100% do not agree with that assessment at all. There's overwhelming evidence to their guilt, both of them, Andy and Anthony. And the evidence is still there. Witness testimony, the jewelry found in the killer's van, and they can't dispute that. It's there.

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_01] And when you talk about jewelry found in the van, this is jewelry belonging to your sister that was found in the van where she was said to have been attacked by these two men. And if they didn't commit that crime, it's difficult to understand how that jewelry got in the van. Is that correct?

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_03] That is correct. That's exactly it. It would be very, very hard to account for her jewelry being in the van if she's never been in the van.

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_02] Let's go into the person who really should be the center of this discussion and any discussion about this case, because it is her case. It is the case of Josette Wright. Can you tell us about Josette? What was she like? Just tell us about her personality before any of this awful stuff happened.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_03] My sister Josette, as she's the youngest of three girls, and I say was, but she really is, because in theory she should still be here. But she's been taken out at a young age. She was pretty funny. She was smart. She was very happy-go-lucky. And a lot of that's not been brought out, because the trial's not been about her or who she was or her personality or who she was like as a person. And she really aspired, Blair, not to be a teacher. And she wanted to have kids. She wanted to start a family.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03] And at her age, I thought that was pretty interesting, because when I was 12 years old, I did not have those aspirations. So it was interesting that she looked so far down in the future to what her life would and could be like for herself.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, she was a maturity. I'm wondering, can you tell me, so she's the youngest. Where do you fall in the birth order, and what was the age range of you and your sisters?

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, I'm the oldest of the three of us. And my sister Chloe is 16 months younger than myself. And so Josette is the youngest by five years younger than myself and four years younger than Chloe. So she was the baby of the family.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02] In terms of your upbringing, can you tell us about what was it like growing up in your family? Tell us about your family as a whole.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_03] My sisters and I were close because my parents divorced when we were young. We moved to Carmel, New York when I was probably around six years old. Josette was a baby. So she didn't really get to know my dad very much. And we were raised in Carmel, New York because it's a relatively safe place. Good schools, blue ribbon schools, and a good, you know, just basically a well-rounded place to live.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_03] And we did go swimming every single summer at a country club in Kent, New York. And we just, you know, as younger kids, we just played outside and did all the things that kid used to do. They would learn to ride their bikes, learn to swim, go to the neighbors, play till it's dark out. And that's kind of our life. It was kind of simple and nothing spectacular, nothing crazy.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02] So with your mom, we one thing that the episodes assert in Bone Valley is that she was working two jobs to support you all. Is that accurate? And can you tell us about her career and sort of what she's like?

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, she worked at the schools and the food services. Is she worked there full time. And after school, she did have a job near the DMV in Brewster, a manufacturing company. So she worked there most evenings for a couple of hours until she came home. So she would come home around 6 p.m., which is not really uncommon because a lot of parents work. Like a lot of people worked in the city and they would come home and commute, that kind of thing.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_03] So she did have two jobs, not at all times, but most of the time.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_02] It sounds like she was a hard worker to support her family. Yes.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_03] Yes, that's a very fair statement. She was definitely a hard worker and didn't shy away from doing what she needs to do to raise us.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02] Now we get to maybe more into Bone Valley.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, they have a person on the show who they don't name. They call her Rachel. And you've told us you're pretty sure who that is.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_03] I am.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01] Okay. We're not going to name her because she claims to have been a victim of sexual assault. And so we're not going to name her. But can you tell us about Rachel and what sort of a person she is and if you find her to be credible?

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_03] I don't believe she's a credible person in any sense of the word. Rachel is the same age as myself, so she would have been also five years older than Josette. She grew up in a household where they moved a lot, is my understanding. She lived in subsidized housing down the street. And she didn't stay in the same location. We were there for years in Carmel at our house. She didn't stay at the same place. She was in Brewster. They were in Carmel. They moved to, I believe, they moved out of the county into Pauling.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_03] They moved all over. So for her to make statements as to my sister's state of mind or who she was as a person, she didn't live there very long.

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02] Do you have a sense of how long she would have lived near you all?

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_03] I would think probably about a year tops. She didn't really stay there very long.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_01] She made it sound like she had a close relationship with Josette. Does that match what you recall?

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_03] No. My recall is that I didn't know her. She was in my grade. I've never seen her attend my classes. I've never seen her with Josette. I never saw her at our homes. I don't think that's considered a close friend in my world.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_02] She made all sorts of claims in these episodes that Josette was over at a group home where she was living and or girls home or whatever you want to call it. And also over at her mother's apartment when her mother moved into an apartment in Carmel. Can you is that something that sounds like Josette would would she have hung out with this lady? I mean, like, is that something that matches your recollection?

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_03] I don't believe so because Josette never told me she was going to hang out with this anonymous person that I know who she is. I don't believe she really had much of a closeness with her when she did have her baby as a teenager. Josette did have the baby's picture, but she loved kids. So I wasn't surprised that she had the baby's photo in her room at some point. But as far as that, when she had the baby, she didn't watch the baby. She didn't go to the hospital.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_03] She never I didn't even know the baby's name. So it was just more like, oh, so and so had a baby. And this is the picture. And I thought, oh, OK, but I don't believe that they were close at all.

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[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, this person going by the name of Rachel, she even tells a story about when she and her family were moving out of the area. She claims that Josette came over and basically said, take me with you. I want to move with you. People won't even notice I'm gone. Does that sound like the Josette you knew?

[00:18:54] [SPEAKER_03] No. Josette came home every night. Josette never expressed to myself or my sister, and I don't believe my mom either, that she wanted to move out of the household.

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_02] Were things okay at home? Was Josette getting along with everybody at this time?

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_03] I believe so. She was the youngest, and we thought she was babied as being the youngest of the three girls. And she felt she got kind of like the short end of the stick. But I think that everyone thinks that. I'm the oldest. I felt like I had the most responsibility. My middle sister, Chloe, felt like she was maybe, you know, the middle child. And I did agree, Chloe and I did agree, because we were close in age, that Josette got a lot more attention than us.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_03] But I think it was also given her age that my mom did make sure she got up in the morning, got her onto the bus, and that kind of thing. So I don't think so. I don't believe so.

[00:19:47] [SPEAKER_02] I grew up not too far away from you in a family with four girls. And I can tell you, first of all, you're right, because I'm the oldest, and the oldest does have to do everything. And, you know, but there's always that kind of birth order discussion. In general, did you feel like you had a close relationship with you? Is that like if something was really bothering her, would she go to you? Or was she a little bit more secretive than that?

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_03] I don't believe she was that secretive, because we were a far enough apart age where we didn't really fight. We didn't fight over anything in common, whereas Chloe and I might use the same hairbrush or wear the same shoes. And Josette was just younger enough where we didn't have that conflict or anything that was going to cause a problem for us. So I felt I was pretty close with her. And our bedrooms were right next to each other. So I heard if she was on the phone or talking to somebody or what she was doing or listening to music, I would hear her talking.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_03] And like, I just kind of knew what she was doing when she was around me.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_02] Was Josette a popular young girl?

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_03] Did she have a lot of friends? She had a lot of friends. Josette had so many friends that when she initially disappeared, the police took her backpack because she didn't take that with her. And she had a list of, I believe, almost 300 names of her friends that the police had to call individually and see who are these people and how did they know her and how close were they?

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_03] So that kind of spoke to how many pages of papers with 300 up to 300 names on it that they had a contact. And they couldn't believe how many friends she had. And in fact, she had five of her friends claiming that they were her best friends. And I thought that was funny because usually you have one or two, but she had five. So they didn't know that the other one was the best friend. So it was kind of interesting. I found that out like during the trials that she had many best friends. So I feel like, yeah.

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_01] That really says a lot about what kind of a person Josette was. I want to get back to this Rachel person for a second. A minute ago, did I understand you to say that Rachel didn't really spend time at your house?

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_03] She's never been to my house. In fact, I even asked my sister, Chloe, I said, has this individual Rachel ever been to her house? She said, no, I don't. I've never seen her there because she knows who she is. And I said, I've never seen her. I've never known her. I don't even know if she knew exactly where we lived, even though we lived maybe a mile or mile and a half up the road from her. I don't know if she actually knew where we lived.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01] And the reason I wanted to clarify that is because on the first episode of season five of Bone Valley, Rachel says your family house was a party house. Adults in the home were drinking. She says it was the house to go to. It was a place where kids went to hang out to get drunk. Does that sound like the house you grew up in?

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03] I grew up in a house. My mom doesn't drink any alcohol. That's her own personal choice. My sister, Chloe, would have friends over, have gatherings. But, you know, maybe on a weekend we'd have like, you know, she'd have her friends over because we had an acre of land. So it wasn't like we were in a cramped apartment or some kind of housing like Rachel was in. So I don't know if she was jealous or how she knew about this or just knew that people came to our house like hearsay or hearing other people speak about us.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_03] But it was just a regular house. We had we grew up in a hilltop manor. And I think if we had some wild parties, the cops would be called by the neighbors because we had, you know, a working class neighborhood we lived in.

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_02] So she will be I don't know if she's claiming this, but the podcast claim, quote, I'm going to read the quote. Well, the house was a sort of place where the adults often behaved like teens instead of authority figures. They partied just as hard as the kids they were raising, shared their beer in Newports with them. So is that something that sounds like the house you grew up in?

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_03] I never smoked. So I know as far as that, Freddie might drink beer, but I don't know if he smoked. But I think my sister's friends, Chloe's friends did smoke cigarettes because some of them her age, maybe two years older and they did smoke.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_02] So you're you're noting that there was some teenage smoking or possibly drinking at times, which is, you know, definitely which is. Yeah, which is right. You know, wow. Right. But at the same time, this, you know, contingent of people calling this like a party house free for all. You're saying that's not accurate.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_03] No. In fact, we didn't really party at people's house. We went into the woods and would party. But if we had a party house, this was not the one because we did not have a lot of money. We weren't rich where someone's family would leave for the weekend and you go to their house. So we were not the known one. As far as I'm aware, we were not it.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02] So you mentioned Freddie and I want to ask about that because that he he is becomes an issue in this podcast as well. Can you tell us about Freddie? Who is he?

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_03] Freddie Moore is someone my mom had dated previously just at disappearing. And after he didn't live with us, he lived in Putnam Lake, which is a section of Patterson in New York. And that was they just dated. So if he did spend like a couple of nights a week, he didn't live there. His his belongings were at his house over there. So what was he like? Freddie was very outgoing. Freddie did was a stonemason.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_03] So he worked really hard. That's very hard work. He did a little stone wall next to our driveway. So I saw him put that together and that that was a lot of work. So that's what I know him to be was like a hard worker, you know, when did his job, that kind of thing. And, you know, I got along with him pretty well. He was just a little just a little loud for me, but I'm kind of a quieter person. So I don't not draw into louder people. They claimed he was doing odd jobs in carpentry. Is that accurate? No, he's a stonemason.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_03] So as far as I know, he wasn't doing carpentry. I never saw him do anything with fine tuning. He was very good with like jackhammering and that kind of thing. So it's more rough hard labor.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02] Did he have a criminal record as far as you knew?

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_03] I believe he did, but I'm not really sure what his criminal record, what his charges were. I've never looked it up.

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_02] And was he a guy who had a lot of tattoos? Was anything like that?

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_03] He had tattoos on his arms, I believe. Yes, on his arms. Like, yeah, maybe both of his arms, but not covered.

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_02] Were you aware of any involvement with him in terms of like white supremacy or like white supremacist prison gangs or anything like that?

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_03] No, I'm not aware of any gang activity or prison or anything like that.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01] It was a suggestion on the episode that at one point he may have hit Josette. Is that something that sounds familiar to you?

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_03] No, that doesn't sound familiar to me. I would have known about it. In fact, I think Chloe would have been very upset because she was more protective than I was. She didn't want people to hurt her younger sister.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And and that's that's certainly so that incidents like that. Did Josette and Freddie generally get along or was was there tension there?

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, they did get along because my mom would often take Josette to Putnam Lake and they would go to his mother's house and she would hang around. There was a neighbor girl next door named Tara and she did hang out with her quite a bit. That was the girl that she was supposed to go see the day she disappeared and she fell asleep. And that's why she didn't end up going there because Josette couldn't reach her by phone. So she didn't she abandoned her plans. They did hang out quite a lot, the three of them. She didn't really leave Josette with us.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_03] She kind of if Josette was 11 years old, she didn't want us to have to watch her or make sure she was safe and everything like that. So she would take her along with her, take to dinner or go see Freddie's parents.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_02] One quote that they have in here that I'm just going to read it. And this this will give us a sense. Like, is this accurate or not? A mile up the hill from Carmel's town square stands the house where Josette lived. On her walk down that hill, she'd passed the girl's home on the left, meaning St. Cabrini. Is that accurate? Yes. OK, so that location's at least right. What? Go ahead.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01] I want to ask something else. And this is something that in some of our earlier conversations, you've mentioned that you feel is strongly is not accurate. There's a line in the show where they say to keep herself busy. Josette wandered the streets. She was constantly seen walking the towns at all hours alone from the age of 10. Would you like to respond to that?

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, I definitely do. So that is something that's definitely not accurate. If Josette was 10, 11 or even 12 years old and she was wandering the town of Carmel in the middle of the night or anything past 10 p.m., somebody would have between the Carmel police or the sheriffs, which were all located right in the town, would have picked her up.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_02] Could you also contextualize, you know, in 1994 is a 10 or 11 year old walking around going to friends houses during the day? Is that something that would be seen as especially odd? No, not at all.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_03] Not not where we were now. No one took that as a scary situation could possibly happen or anything that's out of the ordinary.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02] As far as you knew, was she wandering the streets at night, like early in the morning or at night all by herself? No. Okay.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_01] You may not have an answer to this, but I'd like to ask. What you're telling us is a lot of the information that is being put out there is not true and that they're saying things about your family and about Josette that are not accurate. Why would you imagine they would be doing something like that?

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_03] I believe that the other side is doing that because it makes them look good. It justifies what they're saying about us, kind of characterizing us in one way and want everyone to see everything in one particular way when that's not really the truth. They weren't able to prove it in court. They we didn't see her in the middle of night.

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_03] And in fact, Rachel did testify that at two in the morning she would see her walking and the prosecutor asked her, did you help her? Did you pick her up? Did you take her to house? And she said, no, she said she drove past her. So if she was overly concerned about Josette's well-being, she would have picked her up and either called the police, go on to the police station, which was right there.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_02] I will say, like having seen this first episode, like there is a lot of dehumanizing and frankly derogatory implications that are made about your family, which I think is really odd given that there didn't seem like there was much of an effort, if any, to get your side of it on the story.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_03] Right. They didn't want to have the other side say the real truth. They don't want the truth. They just want you to hear their side, their side only. And what that's just their narrative. It's victim blaming. It's it's blaming everyone but themselves for what they did.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02] In terms of October 3rd, 1994, can you tell us about the day Josette disappeared, your memories of that?

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. So on October 3rd, it's the day after it was the day after my mom's birthday. So her birthday was October 2nd. And I had made plans two weeks previous, I believe, with the DMV to get my learner's permit at 17 years old. So my mom was working at the school. I attended the same high school, Carmel High School. And she and I made plans. She was going to take me to the DMV.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_03] And she was going and I took my driving exam. And then she told me that she learned the my mom's place that she worked at her second job was right right behind the DMV. And they said to her they had a cake for her birthday to commemorate her birthday. So she wasn't going to go to her second job. And Josette didn't know that. So when just my mom dropped me off at the house and said, I'm going to my second job till Josette I'll pick her up later.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_03] And Josette came off the bus. And I told her that. And she wasn't very happy about that. But she kind of just hung around the house, went down the road, came back. And when she went back down the road, I never saw her again. And I never she went off the front door. I never, ever saw her again. So I thought maybe she went to one of her friends house. She wasn't particularly mad. She just seemed annoyed. She tried calling my mom at work. My mom explained the situation, saying they had a cake for her. She felt like she had to go to work. And she did. So it was a change of plans that day.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_03] So that's basically why my mom didn't take her to her friend Tara's house in Putnam Lake.

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02] I want to run by the quote that this podcast includes about describing the circumstances. And if you could kind of address some of this or talk about what's accurate or what isn't. October 3rd, 1994, it was the last day Josette was seen in Carmel. She stepped off a school bus in front of her small ranch house at three o'clock that afternoon. The house, per usual, was packed with teens. Josette's two older sisters, their friends. Putnam detectives would later interview those teens.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_02] One said Josette had argued with her sister, Chloe, and tried to mix in with her clique. But the older girls would have none of it that day. Nasty words were exchanged. According to those teens, Josette called her mom, saying she was going over to a friend's house. Then she went to the basement and made a second call. She briefly left the house and stood on the porch wearing her thin brown jacket. When no one showed up, she went back in the house. Is there anything to that?

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03] So I wasn't hanging out with Chloe at all. Chloe had her friend Lisa. She had her friend Tom. And she had her friend Bob over. So those were the teenagers. There was three additional teenagers in addition to myself and my sister, Chloe. And Josette showed up. But my sister said, just go out the front door. Don't come out this door because her friends were hanging out in the back patio. There was no fight. It was just more like, don't come out this door. Go out the other door. So that's why Josette went out the front door. We had three doors to her house.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_03] So she did make the phone call. She did. But she wasn't waiting for a mom. I'd already told her she wasn't coming until probably 530 or 6. So she wasn't waiting for my mom because she knew she wasn't going to be there yet.

[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_02] Is it possible? I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt here. Is it possible that one of the witness statements is in the sheriff's report that we don't have that made it out more like, oh, they seem to be fighting? I mean, I'm just trying to think of like how they kind of come to this versus your recollection.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_03] Right. Well, they took all our statements. So mine was taken, my sister, and I believe the other three people were taken. I don't know how many statements they gave to the sheriff's department. So if they said that, that would be their interpretation. But yes, Chloe did not want Josette hanging out with her because she was hanging out with her friends. And they were, to be fair, they were 16, 17, 18 years old, and she's 12. So it kind of didn't make sense that she was hanging out with them. If they started cursing or saying something crazy, she'd be sitting there listening.

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_03] So and 12-year-olds are kind of like sponges.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02] So next, I'm going to read to you another part. This is where they kind of talk about your experience. And I wonder if you could do the same and just kind of give us what happened and how accurate or inaccurate or shaded this version of events is that went into this Bone Valley podcast. Okay. Here's what they said. Quote, there she did a very odd thing. She, meaning Josette, went up to her sister Shelly, stood in front of her staring, then said goodbye and left.

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02] At 345, she went walking down the hill, headed toward the shops downtown that night when she didn't come home for dinner. Let's just stop there. So this, she stares at you and says goodbye. Is that accurate? She did.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_03] That's exactly what I said. Yeah. Did it strike you as particularly odd to say goodbye before leaving? Yeah, because I knew she was coming back. So I thought, why is she saying bye right now when she knows my mom's going to come home and she's going to take her to her friend's house? So I thought, is she just saying bye in case I'm not here when she comes back? I had been in the kitchen the whole time. So I was just excited. I passed my learner's permit and I was going to tell her to my friend. So yeah, I did. That's the only thing that surprised me was that I knew she was going to go out the front

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_03] door probably because Chloe didn't want her in the back, in the back. And it was more the direct route so you could go to the road. So, cause she was cutting across the lawn to go to down the, down the road. Yeah. I was just surprised if she was saying bye when she was supposed to come back.

[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_02] So in terms of just, I'm sorry, just so I can follow. So she, you thought she was coming back, like you thought she was going to wait for your mom to drive her to her friend's house or you thought she was going to go to the friends and then come back? What, which one?

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_03] I thought she was going to wait for my mom and then she said she was going to go down the street and I said, why don't you just wait for mom? And she said, no, I'll come back. And she said bye. And I thought, why is she saying bye to me? She's going to, she's going to come back in like 20 minutes. Cause it wasn't that far down the road. It's just downhill. She said bye. And that was it. And I thought, okay, maybe my mom came home and my mom picked her up on, you know, saw her on the way home. And I thought, no, my mom's not home yet. And then my mom did come home. I said, Jenna, just said, went down the road, didn't come back.

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_03] And we didn't really know where she was. And she, my mom called her friend in Putnam Lake who didn't answer the phone because she fell asleep. So then we were kind of wondering where was she? Where, where did she go? Cause we went, we went down the road and couldn't find her down door where the shops were. And she didn't see her. And then we thought, well, maybe she did her friends. So my mom started calling her friends later on after she didn't say anything about, she didn't call us to let us know where she was. So my mom just started making phone calls and no one knew where she was.

[00:37:34] [SPEAKER_02] I'm just so sorry. Your family went through this. I, um, you know, to continue on with their quote, quote at three 45, she went walking down the hill headed toward the shops downtown that night when she didn't come home for dinner, her mom, Susan called around to Josette's friends and knocked on the doors of their houses. None of them had seen her since school let out. So Susan asked her daughters if she should call the cops. Her oldest girl, Shelly nixed the idea saying that cops do nothing till 48 hours past.

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_02] Nonetheless, Susan called the next morning when there was still no sign of Josette. Can you talk about that?

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_03] Right now, when I was younger, I was 17 at the time when Josette disappeared. I had always thought that you had to wait unless there was some kind of situation that was urgent. And we weren't really sure where she was. So my mom is the adult in this situation. If she wanted to call the police, she could have. But I don't know that they would have been alarmed at eight o'clock, eight thirty at night thinking, well, maybe she's still at her friend's house.

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_03] You know, it wasn't it was getting dark because it was October, but it wasn't hadn't been dark for hours. So I don't think they would have been totally concerned. So I did probably encourage her to give a little more time. And then she the next morning, she reported her missing. So she didn't listen to me. But this is fine.

[00:38:50] [SPEAKER_02] So, you know, I just thought the word nixed there was really odd in terms of, you know, making it sound like you, the 17 year old girl, were the sort of boss of the family. Right.

[00:38:59] [SPEAKER_03] I was absolutely not the boss of the family. Oh, no, no. Chloe was a much more dominating figure than I was.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_02] It's also been I mean, we've done other cases where this kind of perception that 48 hours must pass in order for a missing person. That's very commonly held.

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_03] Nowadays, I know it's less common because, you know, if it's been a couple hours, you can report them. There's no there's no definitive time time limit or time range. But back then you always thought, oh, give it some time and they'll come home, that kind of thing. That was my my understanding, too.

[00:39:31] [SPEAKER_02] Absolutely. So she disappears in October. Then can you tell us about all of these months where she is a missing person and you all have no idea what happened to your sister and to your daughter in your mom's case? Can you talk about that time period?

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_03] When we realized Josette had not come home and we had no idea where she was and none of our friends or family knew any clue where she was and no one had that far as I knew, I was the last one to see her. And I didn't know who had seen her next. No one that I knew had was aware of it. It was such a surreal feeling because I'm torn with do I go to high school today? Do I go look for my sister? What do I do? Because there's no book on what to do when your sister goes missing.

[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_03] And then day after day, you really don't know what to do. And people start to criticize you and they want you to stop your own world and go look for her. But where do you look? I had no reference point as to far as where she could have been. And I didn't have a car, so I couldn't just freely drive to where she or I think she would have been. And it was really hard to go through 13 months of not knowing what happened to your sister

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_03] and having that guilt of, you know, maybe if you looked a little harder, you would find her. I had no idea where she was.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, that's horrible. So people in town were sort of like giving you a hard time either way of like, oh, you need to go look for her.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_03] I had classmates that I had one in particular. She came up to me in my art class and she said, why are you looking for her? And I thought, well, that's really horrible for her to say that. But then I also think that's really braver for her because you don't know what my reaction is. Instead of being empathetic, she was more criticizing me. And I thought that was really interesting. And no one really knew how to respond to her. I said, well, I am looking for her. I just can't look for her all the time. Where do you look? And I said, where would you look? And she said, I don't know, but I would be at looking.

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_03] So, well, that's you. That's not me. I don't I don't know where to look. We have the police looking for her, her friends. If they see her, they're going to tell where she is. The belief was she was a runaway. And I knew she wasn't because her backpack or her belongings, she didn't take any clothes with her. So I know wherever she went was not planned to not come back.

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_02] So there was in town. Sounds like there were some people saying she's a runaway. Sounds like you were thinking this is a lot more ominous because there's no back. But she didn't take stuff with her, which you would expect for a runaway to do.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03] Right. She took absolutely no money with her. Nothing like if you're going to run away, at least you're going to have a little bit of poor thought to take something with you, maybe a little bit of money, maybe like an extra pair of clothing, you know, think you're going to be gone for a week. No, she didn't take anything. And to know her bedroom was left the way it was. We just left it that way because you hope she's going to come back and then just resume her life. I mean, I wish she had ran away. That would have been the best case scenario. Even looking back, that sounds terrible.

[00:42:31] [SPEAKER_03] But she didn't run away because she didn't hate us. She she wanted to be with us.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, do you feel like just that loved you all? I do. Yeah. And you loved her.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_03] Yes, we have. I have. We have at the time my aunt had two young. We had two young cousins that were eight months old and 14 months old. And she would never have left them that we knew if she was going to leave and get mad at us. She was never going to leave them because she was very close with them.

[00:43:03] [SPEAKER_02] She loved the little kids, basically. She loved them. Yep.

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_03] There was more pictures with her and them as babies than any of us. There were so many pictures. Joe sat with our two little cousins. It was it was just so nice to see her being a very maternal young girl just taking on these responsibilities and wanting to bathe, wanted to change their diapers when my sister Chloe and I had no interest in that. And we were older.

[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_03] So it was it was really telling how how maternal, like I said, she was and how how real she was as a person.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_02] I want to ask you, were there suspect discussions around town or within your own family about like, OK, we're concerned or like this person's popped up in either the rumor mill or the just police have mentioned something or like what kind of possibilities as you're dealing with this horror of missing her are you sort of encountering?

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_03] I I'd heard some a few names pop up at Adam Wilson was one of them. And then my mom had said she thought Andy and Anthony. And I said, who are they? Because I didn't know who they were. And honestly, I should have because Andy was in my grade and I never saw him. They were high school dropouts, all three of them. And I guess it kind of turned to their their criminals.

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_03] They they were the drug, the note, the town drug dealers. And everyone kind of knew that. And that's the only reason I knew who they were because they would hang out near the high school and sell drugs. And that's terrible. But that's what they did. And my sister Chloe had said, I think that they did. They know something or did something to her. And I thought, how do you know? And she said, I just I've heard it. So we kind of started hearing that. And then when they were arrested, it kind of made it like they were they knew what they were talking about because I didn't know.

[00:44:59] [SPEAKER_02] So you were you were vaguely aware of these people, but they weren't. I know there's been claims that they were, you know, knew you or knew your sister or whatnot, but it sounds like there was not a close relationship there.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_03] No, I've never to this day ever spoken to Andy or Anthony. In my entire life, I've never had a conversation with any of them before Josette was missing or even to this day.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_01] What was it like when your family received the news, which I believe happened on Thanksgiving, that they had found Josette?

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_03] Yes, it was on Thanksgiving Day. As a family, we gathered when Josette went missing. We didn't celebrate Thanksgiving and we thought we should celebrate it. She would want us to be together. And I think I was hoping that she would just come home on a holiday, which would have been really, really good in hindsight. So we were gathered. We're in the middle of dinner. And it was when something traumatic happens, everything goes in slow motion.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_03] And so we see these two detectives going past our picture window and they're wearing the long trench coats. And it just they knocked on the door. They told my mom, I think you're good. We have some news for you. I think you're going to have me to see to sit down. And she said, no, whatever you're going to tell me, just tell me now. And they said, please have a seat in, you know. And they proceeded to tell us that they found Josette and she was deceased.

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_03] And quite literally at that moment, all hell broke loose because that was not the outcome we were hoping for. Like at all. So. It was really, really bad.

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_02] I'm so sorry. I can't I can't I can't even imagine. What your family has gone through and unfortunately continues to go through.

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, it was it was really bad. It's just amazing when you everyone has a different reaction when someone is giving such devastating news. My sister lunged at the police, the sheriffs that arrived. My grandfather held her back because she was so angry. And I honestly I was really angry, too. And then I realized that my grandmother was screaming at the top of her lungs. So I I felt like she needed to leave the house. So we went outside.

[00:47:21] [SPEAKER_03] And I just we just talked because she was so upset. Like she's funny. Her young granddaughter was dead. And we don't even know what happened to her or how she was found at that point. We didn't know for a long time. And the neighbors had thought it was my mom screaming. It was really my grandmother because she was just carrying on. But I mean, I was trying to hold it together for her because as bad as I felt, I couldn't believe people felt felt worse than I did.

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_03] So it was really a truly devastating moment to learn that. And how old were you when you heard this? When I was 17 is when she went missing. And when we found out what happened to her, I was 19.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, that's I'm so sorry. In terms of what happened next, you know, this is being this has been investigated. It's been a missing persons case. Now it's a homicide investigation, obviously. Can you talk about sort of were police keeping you updated on all the developments in the investigation as far as what happened to Josette? Or were you all more in the dark?

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_03] They did have two main detectives from the sheriff's department. And they did let us know what was going on once they knew it was a homicide case, because I had said, how do you know it's a homicide case? Or like it's the way she was found. And they were kind of keeping everything tight because they didn't want anything to come out before the trials in 1997, which which is fair, because as much as we were victims, just like my sister of what had happened, we didn't have we didn't.

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_03] They said we would find out in trial. Detectives Costaldo and Detective Quick were the ones we basically spoke to most of the time. They'd either call us with information or say, we're going to come right over. Are you guys home? Or they would just literally stop in and say, do you know this piece of jewelry? Do you know what this ring? Do you know if it's Josette's and that kind of thing? And I appreciated that because they showed that they're working on the case and they had evidence and they were trying to link Josette to it.

[00:49:23] [SPEAKER_03] And honestly, some of the rings I didn't even recognize my grandmother had some other people had. So they my grandmother had given her a piece of jewelry. A neighbor across the street had given her an earring that was found in the van. So they did. They did keep us even though it was like in the 90s. We and no one had cell phones. They did tell us what was going on and what leads they were following.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_02] Do you care in the macro sense of who it is or I want the right people to be convicted, not just anybody.

[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_03] You want them in jail. You don't want the wrong person going out and doing this to someone else's family member, which would be horrific on me to want justice for the wrong person just to have justice. You want to get the right people convicted, tried and put away for life.

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_02] It's not like, OK, if it's point person A versus person B versus person C, like you're kind of like, whatever. What's the evidence? Right. So in terms of this, these two people who are then charged and then ultimately convicted of the murder and the rape of Josette, the creep back into Pippo in this podcast, somebody described Anthony as a teddy bearish. Do you feel like that's accurate based on what you've seen?

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_03] That's very inaccurate. I don't think that's a fair statement whatsoever. He is six foot eight. And if you even just looked at his his initial arrest for my sister's murder, he looked like a serial killer gone wild. And I'm not even kidding. I would encourage everyone to look it up.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_02] In terms of their backgrounds, did either of them come from money?

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_03] Anthony de Pippo's family didn't have money, but his mother divorced. Of course, he was she married someone who was in the garbage business. So Anthony's stepfather sold the business and had a lot of money as a result. So his initial his family didn't have money, but through marriage, they they acquired more money.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_02] One thing that Anthony seemingly says, I believe it's Anthony. It's, you know, kind of we're looking at who's saying what. But there was a claim made by one of the men convicted of Josette's murder. I believe it was Anthony saying, quote, you would see just that walking around. You'd see Josette in the deli there, the Glanida deli and the laundromat and this little area. Is that something that's accurate? Is that something that, you know, sounds accurate to Josette's activity when she was young and alive?

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_03] I don't know her to have walked around that much. I did work in the Pontham County office myself down the road. I worked in the passport office and I would have known when I was walking home at five o'clock if she was walking around. I probably would have run into her. So I don't know how often he's referring to that. I don't really know. If she did go down the road, that would be down to the deli and the laundromat, I guess, like, that were kind of connected and the library was, like, in front of it.

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_03] That's where she would go and the kids would kind of hang out because Carmel is kind of a boring place. And then she would go back up and she went to, there's a church behind it. She went to preschool there when she was younger. So I know that's familiar to her.

[00:52:33] [SPEAKER_02] At one point, I believe Anthony also claims that she once asked him for a cigarette and he gave it to her. Does that sound like consistent with Josette's behavior? If she smoked, I wasn't aware of her smoking. Okay. Would she have known these guys, Anthony and Andy or Krivak and DePivo?

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_03] I don't believe so because what happened was, was she initially, I, the last time I saw her, I wasn't the last person to see her. She did continue down to the middle of the Carmel, the Carmel Hamlet. And she went to look for another friend because the first one had fallen asleep. And she went to go see her friend and her father said, she's grounded. She can't come out. And he owned like a sporting goods store down up, like right near the deli where they would sell their drugs.

[00:53:21] [SPEAKER_03] So my understanding was from Andy's test, his confession, his signed confession. This is what he said. He said that she, they saw her at the deli on her way back heading towards our house. And he said, Hey, do you want a ride? And she didn't know them. She didn't indicate to them. They're like, we're friends with your sister. And I think by saying that, that broke down her guard.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_03] So if they were, she was familiar with them. I don't know why he would be introducing himself if she was so aware of who they were. That is a lie because they're not friends of mine or Chloe's. They were never friends. I never even interacted with them.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_02] This also brings up the St. Cabrini girls home in the podcast. It's kind of indicated that these two drug dealers would go hang out and flirt with young girls in this girls home. And that when Josette would hang out there, she'd be a part of that. Was she known to actually hang out at that spot and sort of be in the mix at the girls home at all?

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_03] No, the only people that could attest to that, as far as I'm aware, are Rachel, who was part of the group home at one point, and the two killers. Because they would go there is what they admitted to saying. So that was my understanding. I never went there ever. So I can't attest to that myself. But this is their words. So I'm not. I don't think she hung out there because I would have someone would have told me if she hung out there.

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_02] It seems really odd that a lot of things that are sort of carrying the day in this podcast are things that are only spoken about by the men convicted of killing Josette and Rachel.

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_03] Right. There's no other people to back up those statements, and I don't believe that they found anybody at this point. So it's just their words and just simply their words.

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_01] What was some of the evidence that convinced you that these men were guilty of this horrible crime against your sister?

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_02] We will get the answer to that question and a lot more in our next episode. We want to thank Shelly for taking the time to talk with us and share her story. And again, our hearts go out to her and Josette's whole family.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_01] Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

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