The Murder of Scott Macklem: The Guilt of Temujin Kensu: Forty Years Gone

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02] I'm Anya and today we're going to commemorate on the Murder Sheet the 40th anniversary of the murder of Scott Macklem.

[00:00:07] [SPEAKER_03] Content warning, this episode will include discussions of murder, sexual violence, intimate partner violence, and probably a lot of other sins and outrages since it is a Temujin Kensu episode.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_02] So yes, today is November 5th, 19, not 19 anything, 2026. We're talking about a murder that occurred on November 5th, 1986. So for 40 years Scott Macklem has not been here. He was 20 when he was murdered. I guess that means that he would be 60 today. That must be a really surreal thing for people who knew and loved him to contemplate.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_02] But we're going to talk about him today. We're going to talk about this case and let's get into it. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_03] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_02] And this is The Murder of Scott Macklem, The Guilt of Temujin Kensu, 40 years gone.

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_02] So Scott was ambushed and murdered in the parking lot of the St. Clair Community College around 9 a.m. on this day 40 years ago. He was shot and fatally wounded with a shotgun. He cried for help, but unfortunately a lot of people thought that this was like some kind of prank or people were joking around about a fireworks, you know, situation.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02] Or like a car backfired or something happened. So unfortunately, you know, help was not like immediate. But when they did get him help, it was clear that he was too badly wounded. And unfortunately, he did not survive his injuries.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_03] And of course, the person who shot and killed him that morning 40 years ago was Temujin Kensu, who was known back then as Fred Freeman. Scott Macklem should be at the center of this story.

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_03] But all too often, the focus has instead been on Mr. Kensu and his claims of innocence and the extravagant claims of those on Team Kensu about what a great guy he is.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_02] So I think we want to focus, at least in the beginning of this conversation, on Scott and what we've been able to uncover about him through our reporting so we can further center him in the discussion and center what was actually lost. This was, by all accounts, a very, very sweet young man. He was somebody who didn't really know what he was going to do at that point in his life. I mean, he was only 20 years old. He's attending community college.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_02] I think it was kind of a transitionary period for him from childhood to adulthood. And, you know, like it is for many people in their early 20s. He was this figure in high school who was like a leader, who was like one of the top popular kids in school. But when I say popular kid, that kind of evokes like maybe someone who's kind of mean or a bully. By all accounts, everybody loved Scott. People who were in different cliques loved Scott.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_02] We had one of his friends talk about, you know, they saw this post online. Someone saying, you know, they miss Scott and remember him. And that was someone who was kind of in like the kind of crazy kids in school. But like Scott was more of a goody two shoes at some point. So like even people who weren't hanging out with him all the time appreciated him. He was kind. He was somebody who was going to be thoughtful. It was going to be almost like a peacemaker in a way. And that's the thing we heard about him a lot. Just this nice guy, you know, a real nice guy.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02] And he did a lot of sports. He was really into golf. He tried out football, but that wasn't his thing. He was really into basketball, was a good basketball player. And I think he did baseball. So he was kind of, you know, the kid who was succeeding in high school, maybe a bit of a big man on campus in high school, gets to get out of high school. He's a little bit adrift. He doesn't really know what he wants to do with his life or career.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_02] There were some plans in the making at that point and right before he died. But, you know, the thing that really changed his life was, you know, he and his fiancee Crystal find out that they're expecting a baby. So that was something I think he was very excited for, but also terrified about, as you can imagine. I mean, that's 20 years old. That's young to be a father. I think back then it was more common, but certainly that's a big responsibility.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02] But I think people were feeling like Scott was going to rise to the challenge and step up and be able to help take care of his child and was excited about that. And he and Crystal were going to get married. Like, he had a lot of really good things coming up. So when I say he didn't really know what he was going to do, he had a lot to do. He had a lot of possibilities. He had a good life ahead of him, I think. It was just that transitionary period. And I say this because people always make a big deal.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02] Like, why was he missing classes? It's like, I don't know. I think kind of other things might have been on his mind. Like, you know, a lot of stuff coming up. But I think, you know, I think you just try to figure out what's next. How do I become the best provider and father and husband I can be and sort of embrace those adult roles at such a young age? So, I mean, it was an exciting time for him in many ways. And it's a real shame. He never got to meet his child.

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02] He never got to marry Crystal, which is something he'd wanted to do for a long time. He never got to experience those things and having a family of his own. I mean, it's just horrible. He was robbed. He was robbed of so much. And as were his family and friends. But let's also not forget that Scott himself has missed out on so much in these ensuing 40 years. And he should still be here. That doesn't really get talked about.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, he should still be here. He would be 60. That is in 2026, a relatively young age. He should still be here enjoying his life. And he would be here still today if not for Temujin Kenzu.

[00:07:20] [SPEAKER_02] I feel like he would be like his dad, you know, from everything I've heard in the sense that Gary Macklem is his father. He was like a very gregarious guy. We had one of Scott's friends comparing to like Johnny Carson's being kind of witty and funny and someone who's fun to talk to.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_02] And I feel like Scott might have been a more reserved maybe a little bit, but he definitely had that gift of connecting with other people and and having these kind of positive relationships with with a lot, a lot of other people. And and I think he could have been a leader in the community like Gary was Gary being the mayor of Croswell, Michigan.

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_02] I think he could have had a good career in business because some of those ability to form relationships and trusting thoughtful relationships can be very good in that in that environment. I mean, I think he could have gone to work with his dad at State Farm, perhaps. I think the other options, too. I mean, I think he would definitely, you know, I mean, he he I mean, I don't know. It's it's really it's just it just absolutely sucks. It just it's really sad.

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_01] What what was lost here? He seems like a great guy. And.

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_02] I guess I would just say people, especially like those who kind of still cling to this, I don't know, this weird team Kenzu thing, I'm not talking about people who just doubt his guilt. I'm not that's not that's not this is not directed at anyone in that camp. But I mean, like.

[00:08:56] [SPEAKER_02] There are people who have been carrying water for this guy to a degree greater than, hey, I have some personal doubts about the guilt or the verdict, right? It doesn't quite convince me like that's that's any anybody can have that. And that's and that's fine. And everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I'm talking about people who have been like trying to whitewash this guy for years and kind of like sell him to the public, you know, false advertising, in other words.

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. No matter where you come down as to Mr. Kenzu's guilt or innocence in this case, I think it is indisputable that people on Team Kenzu have been lying about him and they've been lying about him to an extravagant extent. Talking about he is a light in the world. Think of all the good he could do if he was out in this world.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02] Like I don't personally classify beating women as a good.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_03] He he was a good time with women when he was out. He was raping and abusing women.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_02] Maybe it was a good time for him, not them.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. So I think it's important to recognize again, no matter where you come down, you've been lied to about this case. By people on Team Kenzu.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. I think it's like a real I mean, I think honestly, I think that actually plays into the like some of the histrionic response we've gotten, frankly, where people are like, you are not allowed to mention how bad he is. That's cheating. You have to just talk about the fact. It's like, first of all, we can do whatever we want, actually. And second of all, I'm sorry that it exposes some people as having basically whitewashed this guy for years. But that's not really our problem.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02] And frankly, when I'm looking at a case, I want the whole story. I want what's in the case file. What I want, what's in the trial transcript. I want stuff that didn't get into the trial. It's called having a full picture. It doesn't mean we're advocating for someone to be convicted because they're a bad person. But like, I don't really feel the need to pick and choose in order to curate things for everybody, because I trust that my audience is smart and can figure that out for themselves.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, the reason you would be selective about revealing information about a person is because you don't trust the audience to come to a conclusion.

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_02] That you want them to come to.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_03] And again, people have been lying about him. And if you talk to people who have worked with him behind the scenes, they all have stories about how even they have been subjected to abuse from him. We got tapes of some of his conversations with people over the years. We played them on our show to demonstrate how abusive he is and what a terrible human being he is.

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_03] And this is something that is known by people on his team who then go out and talk about what a great guy he is and how he should be out. And there's no way he could ever do anything untoward. And they know otherwise. And again, this is not me saying he's he's a murderer because he's a bad man.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_03] It's me saying that these people knew the truth about what he is like and they chose not to share that and instead to lie. And that is ultimately self destructive to your cause, because one thing about this world is that sooner or later, the truth is probably going to come out.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_03] And does it come out from someone who is sympathetic to Mr. Kinsu and wants to make a case for his innocence? And do you prepare people for the bad stuff or do you hide it and let it come out from people who are not sympathetic to him and just want the chips to fall where they may? And when you let when you lie and the truth comes out, it just makes your entire effort seem dishonest.

[00:12:59] [SPEAKER_02] When someone is lying to me and like I'm not going to trust them again. So it's like some of these people have regrouped to being like, well, I guess he's I guess he is a bad person. But it's like, yeah, no, no, no. But you've told us he wasn't. So why should we believe you about anything? When you when you lie, you are just like I throw that person out with the garbage at that point unless I have some sort of like full recompense. And I think that's the way that you're not going to be honest about.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02] You know, I mean, like, I'm sorry, that might sound kind of harsh, but I think it's really I think like our informational diet is probably just as important as our nutritional diet. I think what you take in is important. And if someone is basically poisoning the information that I'm taking in, it's like I'm not going to go to that restaurant again like that. You know, if you're if you're not being honest about like, oh, well, these are expired, but I'm going to serve them anyway. Like, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02] Like that's no the health inspector is coming in and shutting this down because I mean, as far as I'm concerned, I just I don't view this stuff as entertainment. I view it as educational. I view it as informational. I view it as journalism. And I'm not messing around with with this stuff. And I don't think anyone should, frankly, I find it appalling. And I again, I think that some of the reactions that we've gotten were people like, oh, you're you know, you're you're saying bad things about him.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02] But that, oh, it doesn't mean he's guilty nor nowhere have we said that we've actually said the opposite many times. So, I mean, I there's that also, frankly, I don't call this ad hominem. I don't call it attacking his character. I call it correcting the record. Yes, I call it correcting the lies that have been told for years. Because I mean, you would think you'd want the right information to get out there.

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[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah. I think that's shameful. I think people also should do some soul searching about what decades, decades of one side of a true crime narrative dominating the media and social media would do to people who care about Scott.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:18:30] [SPEAKER_03] What do you think of that, Anya?

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_02] I think they should. I mean, I think for some it seems like they don't even have the capacity to do that because it would probably mean confronting some pretty awful stuff. But I think I would just ask people, again, who are in this community or flirting with this community or whatnot to do that soul searching.

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_02] And imagine being someone who lost a son, a brother, a fiance, a father, a friend in a really horrible way.

[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_02] And then imagine four decades, four decades of people crowing for all those years about not only that this killer should be released, but that he's an excellent human being who just liked rock and roll and sex too much. I mean, who doesn't, right?

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, like how insulting given what we know about Scott being stalked by this man. How insulting. I'm not asking people to agree with us that he's guilty. I'm simply I'm not asking any of these people. I don't think they will agree with us that he's guilty, but I'm asking them to at least let yourself do the thought experiment because. That's not right. I mean, I think I would ask people to put themselves in crystal shoes.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02] You get raped and beaten by this man. You get away from the guy. You marry a guy you love. And then this guy, Kenzu, kills the guy you love. And then you have to raise a baby alone. You have to testify a trial about some of the worst things that ever happened to you. And then, I mean, that's that's horrific trauma right there. Like, that's all horrible. But then let's let's compound it.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02] Let's say then society immediately, you know. Doesn't simply start praising Kenzu and calling for his release. This guy who did this to you. They start attacking you. These are saying you're the liar. What you say doesn't make any sense. You must be just some simple country farm girl who doesn't realize what's a ninja movie and what's reality. You're just stupid. You're just a liar. You're just trying to keep a good man down. You should come forward and say the truth because how dare you?

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_02] How dare you have this guy be held accountable for his actions? You're the liar. You're the bad guy. You're the evil one. It's like it's classic Darvo being done at large, right?

[00:21:06] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_02] Darvo means deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. This is something that when perpetrators are confronted or there's an attempt to hold someone accountable for their actions. And I certainly think a life sentence in prison counts as that on some level. They switch it. That never happened. I didn't kill Scott. And frankly, you're crazy for thinking I did. I never raped you. You're just lying.

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_02] You're a liar. You're the bad guy. And you're really the one who was stalking me all these years.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_03] I wasn't stalking you. He actually made that claim.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_02] This is Darvo. I don't understand how people don't see that. It's extremely clear to me. I think it's very possible to advocate for one's own innocence without doing Darvo and simply saying, here's why I'm innocent. You don't have to attack anybody. Certainly not someone you victimized.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_02] And certainly there's been all this stuff about like, Kenzu acknowledges the harm he's done. Not to Crystal. Not in any meaningful way. So, you know. Oh, yeah. And in fact, he continues to attack her online. So I think.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_03] They say, oh, yeah, he's tired of apologizing. When has he ever apologized?

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, he's tired of something he never did.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_03] Yes.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02] That's like me saying I'm tired of running marathons. Never did it.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_03] And the whole thing about changing what you say, that's also true to an extent because it reminds me over the years we've heard Kenzu and people on Team Kenzu say, oh, he couldn't have done this because he has such great character.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_02] Such a great heart.

[00:22:50] [SPEAKER_03] He's such a noble, caring, wonderful person. All he wants to do is help people. A person like this couldn't commit murder.

[00:22:56] [SPEAKER_02] Of course not.

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03] And then it turns out, well, no, he's not like that. He's a rapist and an abuser. Well, how dare you talk about his character?

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02] It's like you've been doing it.

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_03] If you choose to make Mr. Kenzu's character an issue in this, which was a profoundly stupid thing for you to do and a profoundly unethical thing for you to do, then you have to allow it to continue to be made an issue even when the facts no longer fit your side.

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02] It's like it's like that reaping and sowing meme. It's like, yeah, we were not the ones who if we approach this case and Team Kenzu had been honest and thoughtful and discussing things of like, yes, he does have a history of abuse. And there's been all these allegations. But here's why we still then I wouldn't feel the need to make an issue of it. We can acknowledge it or we can say, OK, yeah, there is that. I mean, it's not like we don't it's not like it's verboten and we can't talk about it.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_03] And in fairness to them, they're kind of stuck because. At the heart of this case is Crystal. And if you believe Crystal, then it's hard to believe in his innocence. And what she says is he abused me. He threatened me.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_02] And he threatened Scott and he stalked us.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. And when you look at those facts, it comes down to some extent. Is he the sort of person who would do this? And so is the question is, is he the person of bad character or is Crystal the person of bad character? And is she just lying about all of this?

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_02] People say this isn't true, but it's either Crystal or him. There's two options here. You believe Crystal, you believe him.

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_03] So it's kind of you kind of have to make if you're on that side, you kind of have to build up his character at the expense of crystals. So that's that's what they've had to do. And that's ultimately a bad strategy because he does have bad character. And also because it's not him versus Crystal. It's him versus all of these other women who he treated in ways very similar to how he treated Crystal.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_02] Well, it's like, you know, we get called bias for sharing the stories of those other women that he harmed. And that's from some of the people who have spent years maligning Crystal's character and maligning her word and pretending like she must be stupid or evil. And when we bring stories of those survivors forward, that does not merely condemn Kenzu as a bad person. It actually fully exonerates Crystal.

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02] When you have Crystal saying, oh, he's he's somehow being able to like listen to me and his listening devices. He says he's a ninja. People say, well, that sounds far fetched. That that doesn't sound realistic. And when we say actually these other women say the same things, then it's like, no, no, no, no. Don't tell me that. You know, it's like, OK, I don't know what you want at this point. We are not the ones who created the environment around this case where all of this stuff was made an issue. We're simply coming in and saying, actually, there's a different side to this that has not been put out there.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02] And then people, you know, flip out about that. It's like almost like people don't want to hear it. It's almost like they don't want their beliefs challenged. It's weird. But, yeah, I think I think I just want to say this is going to sound blunt and I'm not calling anybody evil. It's more of like a societal evil. I think what happened to Crystal, what was done to her, what people chose to do to her is profoundly evil.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_02] I think having the worst stuff of your life happen to you and then have people who are not willing to do any due diligence or speak truth to any of this dynamic saying that she's the bad guy is something that disgusts me to my core. However, she deserved a lot better out of this case. I'd also like to note that it's very much possible to advocate for Kenzu's innocence without attacking Crystal. It's harder.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02] I do personally think there's a binary here. Because I think if you believe her, that goes a long way against him. But, you know, you can contort yourself and say, well, listen, he may have been raping and abusing her. And then Scott got really unlucky and some guy thought he was someone else and killed him. Hard to believe to me. Hard to believe. But you can do it. You can do it.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_02] And you can say, well, listen, the people who get accused of this stuff usually are bad guys and they get thrown away. And then people don't look at the, you know, the weakness in the case. And like you can make that argument. You know, and I respect that argument, actually, believe it or not. I respect that. I think it's wrong. But I respect the intent there of not, you know, of not like being a rape apologist.

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02] And because, I mean, that's what you'd have to be at this point to be going after Crystal and all the other women who have said we all went through the same thing. None of us knew each other. But, you know, this is what happened to us. So I think this is evil what happened to Crystal. Unfortunately, I think it's actually pretty common in a, I don't think what happened to her is common. But I think the impulses we have as a culture and as a society are common.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_02] How many stories of sexual assault survivors, male and female, have you heard where the perpetrator's feelings and well-being are put over those of the surviving victims? Think about like your Brock Turners, right? Remember that? He's raping a young woman in an alleyway. This is a Stanford student. He was a swimmer. Raping her in an alleyway.

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_02] Two other gentlemen get off their bicycles and run and confront him and stop him. God bless them. And he gets this like slap on the wrist sentence because, you know, he's just a young guy and he's just a swimmer. He's just a Stanford student. You know, I mean, you can't make this up. Like. Oftentimes this just isn't really treated as particularly serious on honestly, like and this is just a very.

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02] This is an opportunity where years ago people promoting this Kenzu is innocent thing had the opportunity to say, listen, he did all these things and that was really bad. And he has a really terrible personality. But maybe. Maybe. He doesn't. He still doesn't deserve to be wrongfully convicted. I mean, and like I think I would agree with that sentiment in general. You don't. No one deserves. No one deserves to be convicted. Even if they're a jerk.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03] No one deserves to be wrongfully.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_02] I don't believe people say to me all the time. Well, I mean, I don't think he's guilty, but it's great that he's in prison. I don't think that that's the system not working at all. That's just not.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_03] He only. That's not how he only. He only deserves to be in prison if he's actually guilty.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_02] He didn't get convicted on rape. He didn't get convicted on abuse of women. So, yeah. No, if he's not if he's not guilty of the murder, he should be out tomorrow.

[00:30:01] [SPEAKER_03] You know, Anya, Josie Duffy arrives, the host of the Backfire Fact, said that you and I have great power. In this case, and we have the power to perhaps change outcomes in this case to the detriment of Mr. Kenzu. And certainly on some sort of ego level, I would love for that to be true. Fair. But let's be honest. It's important to be intellectually honest. I don't think we do. Anya and I do not have that power.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_03] No one has the power. The power in this case is the truth. And it is the truth that has kept this man in prison.

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_03] And the truth is the version of the case presented to the public is very different from the reality of the case, which is why what we've shared with you, the information we've shared with you on this program is news to people following the case through the media because you've been failed. You've been failed. The public has been failed. But it is not news to people in the legal system in Michigan. They all know all of this.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_03] And this is why he has been kept in prison all of these years. This is why law enforcement, parole boards, governors, whoever, that this is why they have consistently made the choices to fight to keep this man in prison. The power is not the murder sheet. The power is not some corrupt Michigan officials. The power is the truth.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_03] And the truth is not only is Temujin Kenzu a horrible human being, not only is he a rapist and an abuser, but he is a murderer and he killed Scott Macklem and he deserves to pay for it by not taking another breath of free air as long as he lives.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03] And also the truth is sometimes there are people in this world who commit terrible crimes, but who then somehow redeem themselves and transform and become a better and changed person. And the truth is that has not happened in the case of Temujin Kensu. He continues to be the same person he was 40 years ago when he fired the shot that took the life of this young man.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_03] He is a manipulator. He is an abuser. He causes pain to innocence even from behind bars. He sucks people into his orbit and he makes their lives demonstrably worse.

[00:32:36] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. When there's many people who won't go on the record with us, but when I look at this, it's like it's like watching. It's like seeing perhaps like if you look down the side of a volcano after there's been pyroclastic flow or lava flow or some kind of eruption. And it's like seeing all the all the trees and houses and people just burned and swept away.

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_02] Like that's, I think, his effect on life for for for for people going back years.

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01] I don't I don't feel like we've met anybody. No one's come forward to us who said, yes. This. This was a positive experience for me.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_02] You know, I mean, I'm sure there's people on Team Kenzu who will tell people that.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_01] But I mean, we're talking about people who were his friends, people who cared for him. We're talking about people who did a lot for him and were ultimately severely harmed.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_02] And I just think that is worth knowing. I don't I don't think I think this person would absolutely reoffend and would be a danger to the public, which isn't really common. Normally, people really chill out when they're older. You know, male offenders, especially like there's not as much of a risk of some 70 year old going on a rampage.

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_03] But I think there is with him. And I think when we talk about things that members of Team Kenzu have knowingly hidden from the public in their attempts to manipulate public opinion, we understandably focus on his abusive behavior, the rapes, the threats. But let's not forget the fact that this man, this this Mr.

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_03] Kenzu, he actually wrote a book creating a new religion about how great he is and how he should be able to do whatever he wants. And his team completely hides that from the public. I'm not aware of anybody covering that before us. And if a man is writing a book saying basically, oh, I'm the equivalent of a pope only in my new religion. I think that tells you something about him. I think that's something that should be out there.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02] It's not even like just a pope. He's like there's like a prophecy about him. And then the evildoers of Michigan, like I guess where the basically servants of hell in his mind are new about that and conspired to frame him so that his promise would not be delivered.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_03] And again, I hasten to say you can be a lunatic and think you are the founder of a new religion and still be innocent of murder. But I think we need to have that information. And I think a person who is a lunatic and is writing a book about how great I am and I'm the founder of this religion, all hail me, let me have as many wives as I want, and goes on for hundreds of pages about that.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03] I think that is not a person who meets the description of someone who is the light of the world and is helping everybody. And it just underscores the level of deceit and manipulation.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_02] Well, I think, I mean, people, you know, I mean, again, I appreciate what Josie said, as you said, on an ego level, it's like, wow, we're so powerful. I don't think that's the truth. I think what you said about how the truth is what matters is true. But I also think this, just as a strategic thing, maybe I shouldn't even say this, but I mean, I think it's too late for them. So I guess I don't mind saying this.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02] I think that when I think the audience is smart and I think that when they feel like they've been duped and that a bunch of things have not been shared with the public for years and that they've gotten a bunch of sparrows. And people have not been on one side and not the other. And people have not been honest. I think that makes them mad and they switch their opinion based on the new facts they know.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02] So I think that Kenzu supporters are responsible for us. I think in a if you were running an operation that was based on honesty and thoughtfulness, we would not have been able to come in and say this is wrong. This is wrong. This is wrong. You lied about this, this and this and make everyone look ridiculous. Okay.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_02] I think that had things been just more honest, I'm not saying they had to emphasize what a jerky was, but just at least acknowledge some of the reality and don't hide it. Like. Had they been running a ethical, responsible operation all these years, there would have been nothing for us to say or do. It's when people we're not charismatic, fancy people who everyone's like, oh, my gosh, guys, you said it.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_02] So we believe it. The amount of people who I absolutely respect, longtime listeners who reached out to us when we first started covering this and being like, you guys are going to have to really convince me because I'm not seeing this. Who've changed their minds. That's not because they're just swayed by us because they were skeptical at first. It's because they heard the facts and changed their minds based on that. So to me.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_02] I guess I would just say I think it's a lesson on don't put out inaccuracies, don't put out whitewashing, don't do this because you're building. You know, it's a giant with clay feet. You're building sandcastles, not actual castles. This isn't a fortress. It's something that we're going to be able to kick down in two seconds.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02] And I think it's a lesson for all of us because it might be tempting for people, especially in true crime, to try to put together something that's like a tidy, palatable narrative that plays on all the big emotions. But the reality is that if that is not true and if you're hiding key pieces of information with that, the audience will turn on you if they find that out. People are sick of this.

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02] The amount of times I've run into, you know, oh, yeah, well, I heard this and then it turned out that wasn't true. We're really playing with people's time and emotions. And that's a dangerous game if it comes out. And I just think that I think people should be aware of that. I think that's exactly what happened here. It's not that we're special and like so persuasive. I think it's just being like, hey, guys, this also happened. And people being like, are you kidding me? You know, and some of those people aren't even like, I'm definitely not.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02] Definitely on the guilt side now. They're just more of like, I'm ambivalent or I don't want to spend my energy advocating for this person. It's not even like everyone's in lockstep. It's a diverse coalition, frankly, in that sense. But it's still people who are disgusted by what happened. And again, I give that I give those people credit. You know, I think it's it's this shouldn't have happened. It shouldn't have happened. We shouldn't have had to come in and correct all these inaccuracies. They never should have been out there. And.

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_02] I think it just makes people look foolish and duplicitous when they're still chasing that, you know, that's never going to go back. Trust was lost. And that's not that's I mean, you know, that's that's not going to stop. Stop. So I think we wanted to say one more thing before we go. This is going back to Scott and just his family who's in our thoughts right now. We learned recently that Scott's mother has passed away.

[00:40:09] [SPEAKER_02] Pretty recently. I my heart goes out to his family. They've already gone through so much loss. And I like to think that she is with Scott now and that she's getting to see him again.

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01] I know that Scott's loss was just a profound, devastating.

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_02] Event, as you can imagine, for for her, for Scott's father, Gary, for Scott's brother, for Crystal, for everybody who knew him. And and now they've lost. His mother, Pat is just sad to me, but it's also I just like to think that they're together now because I'm.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_01] I'm sure I'm sure she's missed him a lot. And that's that's what I believe. And I mean, I believe I believe that. But it's just it's just really sad to think about having a child.

[00:41:08] [SPEAKER_02] And then.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_01] Because of someone else's selfish actions, having to live without them for 40 years. And like. I just can't even imagine like that kind of pain and to like have to go and wake up every day and. Go on. Like the strength that you would need to do that, I think, is something we can't imagine.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02] And to add to that, you know, then it's the Timmajinkinsu is a lovely guy party on the Internet, like for the past.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_01] As long as it's all been going on, I just. I'm sorry, I'm just rambling. I just I it just it horrifies me. Some of the stuff you look at and it's like this isn't this isn't fun entertainment. This is just. Devastating.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03] Thank you all for listening. Thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

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[00:42:49] [SPEAKER_03] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the murder sheet and who you can find on the web at kevintg dot com.

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