Beyond the Pillars: The Murder of Laurel Jean Mitchell: The Town Marshal

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Playing June's Journey is just like dropping straight into your own cozy mystery story.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Only this time you get to hone your observational skills. You get to piece together the clues.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_02]: You get to be the detective.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_01]: June's Journey is a free-to-download hidden object game. You play as June Parker. She's

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_01]: a flapper slash sleuth and she's all about investigating mysterious goings on in various

[00:00:23] [SPEAKER_01]: jazz age locales. Starting with the murder of her sister and brother-in-law, June sets off on

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_01]: a global quest to unravel mysteries and write injustices wherever they occur.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Each level sees you picking out hidden objects. The scenes are beautifully illustrated and the

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_02]: gameplay is fun and relaxing. I usually play in between tasks as sort of a way to relax and recharge.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: The sense of accomplishment knocking out a level or two is great. It's a way to feel

[00:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like you're escaping reality and traveling back in time to the glamorous 1920s.

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you crack the case? Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_00]: Seeking the truth never gets old, even when it hides in the shadows. Immers yourself in the

[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_00]: world of June's Journey, a free-to-play hidden object game set in the roaring 20s. Solve

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_00]: the mystery of the devious gossip spreader and celebrate our seventh anniversary with exclusive

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_00]: events, never before seen decorations, thrilling mysteries and exciting giveaways. The adventure

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_00]: and the gossip awaits. Are you ready for the journey? Download June's Journey today for free on

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Android or iOS. Content warning, this episode contains discussion of murder and sexual assault.

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Many law enforcement officers come across a certain case during their careers,

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a case that just doesn't close, one that doesn't provide easy answers,

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_01]: one so disturbing that it lodges in their minds forever, a case that comes to haunt them,

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01]: for the late Burdette G. Strombeck or Tony, the town marshal of North Webster. That case was the

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: murder of Laurel Jean Mitchell. We've covered the case of Laurel Jean Mitchell on the podcast

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_02]: previously. She was a 17-year-old girl living at North Webster in Indiana's Casiosco County.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_02]: She had her whole life ahead of her in 1975. After a shift in her summer job,

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_02]: she walked out into the darkness to head to the local Adventureland amusement park,

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: where she was due to meet some friends. She never got there. She vanished. Shortly thereafter,

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: she was found raped and murdered in Noble County. Her case went unsolved for decades until recently.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: A team of Indiana State police investigators led by Captain Kevin Smith used DNA to link

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_01]: the case to Fred Bandy and John Wayne Lehman. These two men are now facing accountability

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_01]: for what they allegedly did to Laurel all those years ago. As of the time of this recording,

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Lehman appears to be possibly moving toward a guilty plea, while Bandy's trial is currently

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_02]: pending for October of 2024. All of this is welcome news to the people of North Webster in

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Indiana, especially those who remember Laurel, those who cared for her. Laurel's younger sister,

[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Sarah, waited for years for answers. So did Laurel's friends like Tony, who remained devastated by what

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: happened that summer night, and the loved ones of those in the community like Tony's daughter,

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Miranda, who in some ways grew up in the shadow of the murder. Unfortunately, the break

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_01]: came too late for one important figure in the case, town marshal Tony Strombeck. He died on

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_01]: March 9th, 2020 at the age of 96. If you've heard our previous coverage of this case, which we'll link

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: to in our show notes, you've heard his name and parts of his story. You've heard how he strived

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_01]: to investigate the case and how he also tried to protect Laurel's friends when they were getting

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: harshly grilled by other law enforcement personnel while reeling from their own grief.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: In researching what happened to Laurel, the town marshal struck me as a person who

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_01]: cared deeply about this case, and I thought it was a shame that he never got to hear news about the

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: arrests. But we were fortunate enough to talk with his family members who recalled what this case

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_01]: meant to him. Their shared memories give us a glimpse into a life of a lawman who centered

[00:04:25] [SPEAKER_01]: his whole existence around helping his community. This episode is not only a profile on an

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: investigator haunted by an unsolved case. It's a look at a man who gave so much to

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_01]: his community and a glimpse of a long ago life and goings on in a small Indiana town.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist. And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting,

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_02]: interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is Beyond the Pillars, The Murder of Laurel Jean Mitchell, The Town Marshal.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Tony Strombeck was the North Webster man through and through. He was born on April 10,

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_01]: 1923 in the town. In 1942, he graduated from North Webster High School. Locally,

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01]: he ran Strombeck Dairy, an army veteran he belonged to the American Legion Post in North Webster.

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: He was a deputy for the Casiasco County Sheriff's Office and a member of the North Webster

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Typica New Township Fire Department. And for over 20 years, he served as North Webster's town marshal.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: In his capacity as town marshal of the Tranquil Lakeside community, Strombeck worked to keep

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_01]: his neighbors safe. When tragedy struck, he was directly involved in the aftermath.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_01]: For Tony, the Mitchells were friends, colleagues and neighbors. Strombeck closely worked with

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Dick Mitchell, Laurel's father. The abduction and murder of Laurel was not that of some

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_01]: anonymous victim. It was a tragedy for the whole close knit community.

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Fittingly, Strombeck's family is still in the area. We were able to connect with and talk with two

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_02]: of them. Miranda actually was the one to link us up with Tony's daughter, Lisa Strombeck,

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and her son, Chris Francis. They'd both taken up Tony's mantle, serving different roles in

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: their community. Just to be clear, Tony is also the name of Miranda's mother who

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_02]: was Laurel's friend. So there are two Tonys to get discussed at times. We should also note that we

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02]: recorded this in spring of 2023, but we feel it's quite evergreen, especially with the case still

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: ongoing. Can you both just tell me a little bit about yourselves, who you are, where you grow

[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: up, your relationship to Tony Strombeck? So I'm Tony's daughter. My dad was the deputy

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_05]: marshal here for 25 years. You actually started with the sheriff's office,

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_03]: first you was a guy who was a sheriff's office. Chris knows more than me.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Because Chris lived his life through my dad since age of five. So, you know, he knows everything.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, so during that timeframe when all this happened, that's when my dad was in office

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_05]: here. So, and we grew up in, you know, basically in town. I only lived three blocks from Mitchell's.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And I grew up with Sarah. We're the same age when we school together, graduate together and

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_05]: hung out together as kids. So, you know, in being a small town, we all knew each other anyway.

[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's kind of where it all came from, you know, originally.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_03]: We got our family's original settlers to the area. So we go back to the 1830s.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_03]: And there's a variety of different offices that have been held. Mom's on the South Cal

[00:08:32] [SPEAKER_03]: Squad, our township trustee with the course, Nick Mitchell was for many years. I actually

[00:08:39] [SPEAKER_03]: replaced Dick on the Township Advisory Board in 2012 shortly after he passed. I went out

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_03]: to the township office and I went to the night that he, you know, shortly before he passed.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And then after he passed, I replaced him on the Township Board. So I knew Dick from when I was

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: kid. In fact, if I can find it, and it might take me a couple of days, but I'll see if I go

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_03]: through some old newspaper clippings. There's a story where Dick's car was stolen from in front

[00:09:05] [SPEAKER_03]: of the fire station. That time was also the police department. And Dick and my grandpa got

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_03]: into a pursuit and apprehended the thieves of Dick's car from the fire station. I just

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: imagine they do because I think he did not be in a pursuit. And if you ever saw my grandpa run.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that was quite interesting. He always claims his foot got ran over in the service

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_05]: by a tank and he always tried to make us believe that, but that is not really what happened.

[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_05]: You had a bump foot. Oh my gosh. Our heritage shows way back, way back. You know, there were a lot of

[00:09:44] [SPEAKER_05]: businesses owned in town back in the day by Strombeck and Culver's, which is, would be my dad's sister.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, so we kind of, we kind of go way back and then Chris and I kind of continue

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_05]: on through our heritage and do what we're doing now through the town. So.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_03]: So I actually, I just retired in September from the Cousin House of County Sheriff's

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_03]: Office. I was there for 18 years and I work now for the state war salt police department.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh okay. Wow. And yeah, as you said that like that civic engagement sounds like it's a bit

[00:10:16] [SPEAKER_05]: of a family tradition almost. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Chris knew from the time he was

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_05]: five years old that he was going to grow up and be a cop. And guess what? He is. That's

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_05]: what he did. So he's lived right through my dad. So he used to dress up and my dad's clothes and

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_05]: where gun belt and his police hat and his clothes, you know. So yeah. Yeah. So here we are today.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_03]: Now I get to see him. See you to dress up as a cop.

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01]: That's a key part of it. Oh man. And I wanted to ask you both, you know, and also,

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you know, I feel like I've gotten a better sense of Northwest during Casiosco County just from talking

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_01]: to people from there and talking about their memories. And but I just for people who are not

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: as familiar with that community in that area, how would you describe it today? And also maybe

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_01]: if you could describe a bit about how it's changed over the years since, since your granddad

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_01]: and your dad was, you know, the town marshal. Northwest is a very neat community.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a very tight knit community. It's small. It's still relatively rural. And of course we're

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_03]: known for our lakes in the summer time, but it's a beautiful area. And I think that's why

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_03]: we're still here. It's a great place to live. It's a great place to play with your family.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. We've got a wonderful school here in downtown. So as of current right now,

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_03]: still it's a great community. We still have a little Spanish or Murmant Festival and we've got a

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_03]: Dixie boat and things like that, that make it just such a unique small town in the middle of

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Northern Indiana. It's not like it's, or lakes really make it who we are. Right here in Webster,

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_05]: though, we go from like 1200 people, like year round to probably triple that through the summer

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_03]: when that's just in the town. And the township itself, the guys that started telling us, we had

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_03]: so many people who were sort of doing some camp here in the south of us and

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_03]: traffic is bumper to bumper with some of the time. Yeah. No, the Nelson chicken on the weekend

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_03]: just sucks a great small town with them. And we only live a quarter mile apart from each other.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_03]: And actually on original family farmland from back in the 18th century. She's on one side of

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_05]: the town. Yeah, we have we haven't gone far. Can you tell? I can see why though. And that's super

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_01]: cool that his sense of history, you know, I'm a history nerd. So of course I'm gonna say that. But

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's really that's needed. Sounds like people stay there for like families.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of blood families are still here. Yeah, a lot and a lot of us late, obviously.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_03]: But a lot of old blood families are still here that are names that promise names back from mom was

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_03]: a kid that are still here today. And I think that says something that there's not quite taking

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_03]: place now. Of course, a lot of people that I went to school with it moved on elsewhere and

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_03]: gone on different careers and that we're still a good core to our community. Absolutely. And I

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to ask you a bit, you know, before we kind of get into the case and whatnot,

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_01]: can you tell us about Tony Strombeck? Who was he to you? And then also who was he to the community?

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_05]: So my dad, as Chris was saying, my dad's family were here in the 1800s late 1800s. So,

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, then he got involved with he was fireman also. He was a fireman, then he got

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_05]: involved in the police department and just he's just someone that everyone knew and loved.

[00:14:05] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they still they still talk about him to this day because what has changed was back

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_05]: in the day before it got so bad and drugs and things which is everywhere. Dad would just pull

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_05]: people over take them home, you know. And to this day, a lot of people that he pulled

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_05]: over back in the day, you know, said, Oh, we just love Tony. You know, he was such a good guy and

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah, he pulled us over but he take us home. He actually earned respect that way. That's not

[00:14:32] [SPEAKER_05]: today's world, you know, anywhere. So he was well known, well loved people still talk about him

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: they still asked about him because he lives to be 96 almost 97 and he passed away in 2020

[00:14:45] [SPEAKER_03]: right when COVID started. You need to ask me next week from today. This is 100%

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah. Yeah. Wow. So he was he's in a staple here. So yeah, he was in fact our Legion,

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_05]: our local Legion, he was the oldest longest, oldest, longest living member of all time.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, he's just somebody that everybody loves. Yeah. And you still to this day, oh,

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_03]: I have somebody come up to me and tell me about something you did when he pulled him over

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_05]: or talking that he's done. Yeah, I bet he was probably the most respected cop we have ever

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_03]: had anywhere. Yeah, I think that was the essence of community policing at that time as well.

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Things were different and just like mom said, we didn't have drugs running rampant. Of course,

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_03]: now we got him up and back then was just a different time. I think Western was a

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_03]: different time as well. I came in with my child, her being toward the end of that.

[00:15:40] [SPEAKER_03]: I know that you all have discussed Adventureland on your podcast. I grew up actually we lived right

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_03]: across the street from Adventureland to us in secondary. So I grew up with that and it was

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_03]: still pretty hot when I was younger. And then of course, it started dying off and they closed

[00:15:56] [SPEAKER_03]: it down by the west. I think that something else that's unique about town and the attractability

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_03]: of it. And I know that of course young kind of say we did that especially when we went

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_03]: right across the street, I've actually lived twice back in the area that all disappeared from.

[00:16:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Grew up there, run our bikes, never went about anything about it. I had a block full of

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_03]: buddies who were probably half a dozen or so of us that were the same age or about the same age

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_03]: that we were from the same block and we were on bikes in those streets and we went back

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_03]: in the app or that camp we played around those three of course normal four was working and

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_03]: just a lot of time back there that is at a young age I just never had any

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_05]: idea of what it actually happened. But see it wasn't built up then like it is now. So it was

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_05]: completely black. Chris and I talked about that like, you know, it was black back then

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: that's not something I would have ever done is to walk or ride my bike back there at night

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: because it was just it was too dark, you know, but I was at Adventureland all the time and there

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_05]: was another arcade across the street. So we had like a B and K and King of Point and,

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, our mermaid festival was just huge back then and lots of stores we had sidewalk days and

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was just insane you couldn't walk down the streets north-western back then,

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, and we were always uptown playing and until that episode and then but yeah that's

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: what we did. You just don't you don't see that anymore. You don't see the kids playing around

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_05]: uptown like they used to. That is one thing that changed. You just don't see the kids out but

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_05]: times have changed too. We didn't have computers back then. Did you have electricity back?

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Can you believe he just said that? It's a roast.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's so but anyway, yeah, so but it's it's uh yeah we just had a

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_05]: during that time it put a really big damper on the area and for quite some time but

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_05]: it never went away. It was never forgot for sure. No and it's something that my grandpa

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_03]: talked about regularly I think and and having spent years in law enforcement of course on

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_03]: a firefighter and in T2 now. So, news to the the trauma and that I've seen some very good things

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_03]: throughout my time. Well, forever stick with you but this one was one that always really bothered

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_03]: my grandpa. He always offered. Of course, as you all know, the investigation has been

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_03]: researched several times throughout the years and this is one that he always often but always

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_03]: forthcoming with whatever information that he had of time because he did upset him that man. I

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_03]: don't know that there's another up until what's been out two months. I don't know that there's been

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, two months since the arrest has been made but I can't think of at least in my time that

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_05]: there's another there was never a whole no no no no no I can't think of anything

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_03]: that we saw. Of course, we had since we get a couple incidents a year in the county but

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_03]: nothing like that nothing like this nothing just has not only corrected but without any

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_05]: weed on. Yeah, but dad always said that he he thought he knew who did it and with the turning

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_05]: of events with who was arrested I don't think that that turned out to be who he always thought it was

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_03]: but I think everybody had their shoes. Yeah, we had a theory. I've been fortunate enough

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_03]: to be able to go through the case file where we had Sheriff's office and bring through

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_03]: some panic. Everybody had their first of interest or some type of speculation but to me when I

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_03]: would hear it, it just didn't make sense and making some of that too was wishful thinking that we will

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03]: actually catch these folks in the flesh someday versus you know some of the speculation

[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_03]: that's in the past was that the suspect that this seems to be was

[00:20:16] [SPEAKER_03]: very chug-affentated or whatever the case was there was just it never separate to me that there

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_03]: wasn't because it's not I understand it's been some years but it hasn't been long

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_03]: going on so where there still wasn't the possibility of an apprehension.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01]: Right and I wanted to circle back though and talk a bit more about what that case meant to

[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Tony and like you both touched upon that and I can almost imagine him knowing the Mitchells personally

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_01]: must have made this also personal in the fact that he had a daughter Sarah's age and I mean

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_01]: could you speak more to that and sort of how he would speak about it over the years as it

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_05]: continued to remain a cold case? You know I was only 12 when this happened so we were

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: it was very shocking. I was old enough to understand that you know someone had been

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_05]: murdered and plus knowing Sarah and Mitchells obviously so it was pretty devastating to the town

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_05]: to the community to everyone you know because we all we all know each other so but my dad

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_05]: you know there were for days months and probably years after that FBI and the county and state

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know there are many officers involved in trying to solve this case

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and my dad just refused to let it go like he stayed on it constantly and I don't know all I mean

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know everything obviously because I was young and the daughter so he just wanted to protect us

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and we went we weren't out too much after that like we pretty much stayed around home we didn't

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_05]: we didn't get out a whole lot during that time for I don't know I probably if I have to say

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_05]: probably it was probably a couple years before I felt comfortable even going out about again so

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_03]: well scary almost right here in your own backyard yeah non-fiction

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: because that's the current yeah that's not things that happened here you know so

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_05]: but dad he wanted to stay on it and he did everything in his you know for being just a

[00:22:22] [SPEAKER_05]: small town police officer he did everything he could to keep it going and pursue the

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_05]: fact that they were they were going to find out who did it and he never did give up on it even

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: you know right up until he passed away he's still talking about it yeah yeah and I found some paperwork

[00:22:38] [SPEAKER_03]: shortly after dashing went through some things I'm kind of the record keeper for the family so I got

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_03]: a very well-guessed newspaper clippings and different stories that they said that

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_03]: from cases that he was involved in a reference exhibit made in the paper I've got a lot of

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_03]: original clips of things and I'd actually found these people work on an activity

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_03]: that was reported but it's been complete so I'd watch as there would have been more to it I

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_05]: could speak to you over the fortune of the club yeah it was Mayberry back then you know we lived in

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Mayberry so of course a murder to happen like did um it was uh it was just devastating to

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_05]: to the town to the families to you know just yeah it took a long time to calm down around here

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_01]: and show you that I can imagine and it's so it's so it's so interesting because um I'm from New York

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: originally around New York City and we've had interviews with so many people you know mostly

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_01]: from communities around Indianapolis where they've compared their town to Mayberry and inevitably

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: you find something where it's like oh there was a serial bomber there and there you know

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: like all sorts of chaos and and and North Webster is the first community where like looking into it

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: I am like that is absolutely Mayberry and like hearing about you know you know like I'd buy that

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_01]: because I you know talking to people and hearing about the sense of community underpinning everything

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_03]: it it fits um well going through the newspaper clip is my grandpa I've referenced that was either

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03]: at 73 or 74 they they had I think April and they had gone in year or two without one

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_03]: their biggest thing no I want to tell us that time was the kids that were driving a marijuana

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_03]: has to yeah if you're watching that and then drop drivers yeah that's all we had and when it's off

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_03]: there was always something and then these big cookies like you see when he's getting this

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_03]: muffler before that people complaining about loose off so that's really how it was

[00:24:37] [SPEAKER_03]: that's all there was yeah you know it's a little different too because when Michael

[00:24:42] [SPEAKER_03]: had fall of course he started as the chair steppin and he came to the

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_03]: North Webster police department but at that time law enforcement was so minimal in the

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_03]: year 80 now Webster has four full-time officers at that time it was my grandpa and a deputy

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and some couple reserves but even the sheriff's department only had a couple guys

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_03]: so they didn't have any ability at that time to immediately dump resources on the things like

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_03]: what we do now of course we have so much more technology not saying that they they

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_03]: weren't doing the best for the technology that they had it on but it's just such a dynamic

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_03]: that's occurred in the last 50 years with the law enforcement yeah because that's been uh

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_05]: gosh I don't remember what year he retired in 77 78 yeah yeah so well this this definitely

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_03]: is effective but I know that he as tony meran and his kind of distressed and and the interviews

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_03]: they did with you my grandpa was upset with the way that some of my old friends were treated in

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_03]: investigation and that was another thing I know there was one night where he pulled on it

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_03]: because there were doing interviews at the Webster police department right and it sounds almost I

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_01]: mean it sounded to me sort of reflects upon the more community-based policing that he was

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_01]: known for where it's like okay I'm not gonna I'm not out here to punish people I'm more

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_01]: about here to you know make sure the community is safe and I felt I mean like I could I could see that

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_01]: in what happened with Tony and her friends where yeah he was friends with all their parents and

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_03]: and a grandparents and all that so they were really a lot closer than just kids within his town

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_03]: they always his big thing was always kits always talked about taking care of the kids yeah

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and he was always really big on I love all the way in my grandpa was always

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_03]: they got on church retreat he was a milkman as well so no hand-wrapping

[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_03]: time also but yeah we slept milk out for Halloween because he always loved doing things for the kids

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah he did that up until what probably I don't know maybe just a few years ago

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah it was still getting milk from the dairy they don't have the kids because

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_05]: they look forward to that and generations came through our neighborhood to get Tony's milk

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah he wanted to make sure but it was something who the hell else

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_03]: no but it was something that was instilled in him and I don't know you know he lost his dad when he

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_03]: was young and they grew up with his mom and his siblings and that so that maybe has to

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_03]: make that daughter to look but he always really he always really really cared

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_01]: this is for for for both of you but especially for you Chris just having been in law enforcement

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_01]: have having looked over some of those files this case strikes me as not a case where

[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_01]: people forgot about it or left it alone it wasn't like oh we didn't solve it whatever

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_01]: it was like people were working on it but why do you think it did end up taking

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_01]: so long to solve it is it just that they needed that DNA piece to really bring it together

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah DNA is such a magical avenue that we can perceive now law enforcement that they didn't have

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_03]: it that way and I would say so of course I don't want to speculate or give out any

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_03]: information in regards to a ongoing investigation but I know that noble county

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_03]: shares the Kaziasta County Sheriff's Office Indiana State Moons have all worked on this

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_03]: fairly regularly throughout the years but unfortunately there are times where you don't have

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_03]: that physical evidence that ties a suspect to it right there at the spot now of course

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_03]: they can DNA out of it but it or any kind of tips or anything it is just so difficult I

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously haven't dealt with it throughout my time on something on a scale as grand as what

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_03]: this investigation is but I've had it regularly throughout smaller investigates

[00:28:49] [SPEAKER_03]: of burglary criminal mischief things like that unfortunately there are times you don't have much

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03]: to go off but given the circumstances of it and a young girl with god knows what she could have

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_03]: become later in life I know she really has to pass ratios

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_03]: if one of those that I don't think for anybody you can just let it go

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_03]: and when you think back to those types this isn't an area where that happens

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_03]: so so long as there are relatives alive and investigators alive and that it was never

[00:29:26] [SPEAKER_03]: going to stop and just God bless Kevin Smith from State Police Hawaii he's done of course he's

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_03]: is a local girl boy from here and from the area and it's just such a to see that

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_03]: some of the fruition as it did so ironically Miranda got older me and got me off your podcast

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_03]: and listened to it of course you mentioned my grandpa more in my co-mom

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_03]: we got her on to it I have a wife listening to it and I was driving I was on duty without

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_03]: working traffic on 30 when the arrest happened so Miranda calls me she's calling it but yeah

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_03]: I stopped over so her shots right around the corner from my police department so I

[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_03]: went over and we were in the problem college that day that just so waited it can't just that the

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_03]: timing of it yeah just the timing of your podcast and then bam all of a sudden here it is and just

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_03]: all the snippets throughout the years that the media would put out you know I could say I go back to

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_03]: my grandpa so I'm gonna put some more knit on he's trying to participate in everything that he

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_03]: could and for being a small town yeah yeah yeah throughout the years it just it never

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and for me I've known dicks the following kid and I'm writing my bike up and hanging out with them

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_03]: that the ems they of course like come on the fire part when I was 16 I think the 16 was the first

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_03]: time maybe I hit something I should have done and dick had me in his office and trusty

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_03]: and just the the the intertwining family connections that occur outside of that

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_03]: is just I think against those of us who know

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_03]: a passion to see this through to completion and I wish that Nick we're still alive see it was my

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_03]: grandpa we're still alive see it course I'm sure that they're looking down on it and this man what a

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_03]: what a first status of it just a horrible thing to see this take place like it hasn't

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously and I'll say out loud with capital letters time hasn't been good on the stuff

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03]: mm-hmm out so whatever it is that they're hard work and I'm looking forward to the

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_03]: process of the trial or the court proceedings whatever direction it's going enough going to see

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_03]: what details that come out you know I went out a couple years ago I was getting ready to go to

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_03]: Amyapolis's concert dick was at the store he had a case without working in the cemetery

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_03]: dudes I think he was still trusty I think he was even when he was done trusty when he was on

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_03]: or he was still helping care for the cemetery and I said I'm trusty now and I care a lot for our

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_03]: cemetery and I like to continue that they did a lot of good things are cemetery so

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_03]: and I never forgot dick had asked me to go join him in the shape for a beer that was on my way

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_03]: out of town so you know dick I'll take the f on that someday because you know I'd appreciate it

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_03]: so the day that this hit I go out and I don't drink so I go out and I said it digs great

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_03]: step by stone had cold coat and just enjoyed it a group cemetery work the experience beautiful

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and it dawned upon me I'm sitting here dick's pretty close to

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_03]: f-word force for it and there's a possibility and I don't know the details but there's a

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_03]: possibility that the suspect put oil into the vehicle and drove right by work x-fairy today

[00:32:49] [SPEAKER_03]: and that's very ice-blood out there so that area still extremely slippery but where dick is pressing

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_03]: right now that's right down the road from where the portal was abducted that is chilling yeah it

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_03]: is it you know I'm sitting out there I've never thought of I spent a lot of time on the cemetery

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_03]: I've never thought about sitting here the nice afternoon and taking a nature because it's all

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_03]: looked out around there the mouse across street but otherwise rather than that stretch it's all

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_03]: tri-county so yeah it's a big interest but there's a chance depending on what way those guys went

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_03]: and there's not a whole lot of ways to go out of there if they were gone eastbound

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: they wouldn't have driven right by is laurel buried with with dick and wilma they are now are they

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_03]: buried together they are not laurel is in laurel and wilma or in moxametry which is old family

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_03]: farmland to us that's on the southeast buddy wow I mean that is that I mean just the echoes

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: of everything that's what kind of what we were talking about with Miranda and Tony some of

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_01]: echoes throughout time and that's what this case and that's why I'm so happy to be speaking with

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: both of you because you both represent how this has gone down through the generations and I mean

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to ask Lisa how how did you find out did Chris tell you or how did you get the news

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_05]: it was all social media I think and then yeah and I was one of the first to find out I don't

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_05]: know how because I think I just saw it on on social media and then it went like wildfire

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_05]: so yeah and then I got a call from the newspaper that also wanted you know to hear you know a

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_05]: little bit about you know the background back then when this happened so but yeah I found out

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_05]: really quick we're small so words for as quick it doesn't matter what it is but something like

[00:34:50] [SPEAKER_05]: that is huge and everyone knew it's in a matter of what it is hours oh yeah yeah hours yeah and I was

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_05]: so happy for Sarah you know that this nightmare is over for him you know after all these years

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_03]: after all these years in a mad not knowing Dick and Wilma both passed away and Wilma

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_03]: we knew her I knew Wilma from when I was getting because she worked in a grocery store

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_03]: right across the street from her house and you know everybody knew Wilma and I just couldn't

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I always felt so bad for her life yeah I would look at her and just feel bad because she was such a nice

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_05]: place you know and then I know enough to what happened to your daughter I don't I can't even

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_05]: imagine and I don't go there and thought that I can't even imagine what she went through for

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_05]: her whole life you know from that time forward till she passed away so and you know let alone

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Sarah was well you know so and just being known and not knowing and wanting to know and

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_05]: and Sarah was so happy though I listened to your podcast with her and she was just so so happy to

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_05]: know that it was over and that made me happy to hear that you know that she she was finally

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_05]: has some comfort and relief and and knowing that it's over so but man it's hard to put you off there

[00:36:16] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely I mean I know I we got the email from Miranda that morning and then Kevin saw it first

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_01]: told me and I kind of like I thought he was making a mistake I think you I thought he was

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01]: confusing cases at first because we just people think that we covered it because we had some

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_01]: sort of clue that it was gonna be solved imminently we had no idea it was absolutely like a total

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_03]: shock and and we're just like talk about me that's so weird irony yes yeah I think it's

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_03]: so important to keep the story alive even once the trial is over with to think that you're

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_03]: just in this poor girl with such a meanest event that occurred chain of events that occur and

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_03]: finally there's some justice and I hope that that brings some peace to the family in that

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_03]: man man it is such a I can't imagine the impact and just mom talking just what it was

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_05]: and like that that that's scary it was scary weird it was like I was I was just weird for

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_05]: you know like said I was 12 but it was just the town was kind of went dead there for a while because

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_05]: everybody was so afraid and to go out and just you know everybody was frantic it was just weird

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I it's hard to even explain because it's been you know so many years ago but um it was just a

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_03]: very scary scary time so I was actually just out of that area again this afternoon I had a bronco

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_03]: so I just we finally got above 60 degrees today so I just felt like rocker would out for cruise I spent

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of time out that way and it is so very isolated yeah man I'm curious to know exactly what point they

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_03]: were able to get her into the vehicle and that because most everything I think when we most all

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_03]: that like even the house I'm I turned 40 in a couple months mom turned 16 a couple months ago

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_03]: went to that but even the black we would do right across the street from the Densho land

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_03]: we were one of the first houses kind of right yeah yeah direct right in the years yeah that was just

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: still underdeveloped yeah there was probably I would say a quarter of a mile from the Densho

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_05]: land to the pillars of upwards that was just black there was a farmhouse that that was there

[00:38:40] [SPEAKER_05]: that had a white that's it so just picture a black road and just the lights from the metro

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_05]: land is all that you would see walking down that that area of that of the street my brother actually

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_03]: was right there now brother's in one of the other divisions that have gone in off

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_03]: up where poor children you have to go out there and close your eyes just a little bit

[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_05]: taking in for for how desperate it would have been as a child picturing that you know that whole thing

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_05]: it was just yeah it was beyond comprehension it's a really better friend so think of a friend

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_03]: that we're going to be hanging out with through yeah all that that's such a such a terrible

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_03]: when you really make yourself an emotional aspect of it it's horrific I mean everybody

[00:39:27] [SPEAKER_05]: knew her you know everybody knew her so everyone knew that that is not a situation that she would

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_05]: have got herself into and have that happen exactly exactly and it's just like I don't know it just

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: it makes it's there it's makes you angry to think about kind of I mean because it's like

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_01]: so needless not a situation where it's a bar brawl gone wrong very much a calculated evil act

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_05]: just absolutely it's governor yeah I think the status thing is too that she's supposed to be

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_05]: picked up her mother thought you know she was being picked up and when she didn't get picked up

[00:40:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and then she ended up walking I mean that right there you just think you're walking down the

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_05]: street yeah you're walking down I'm fine I can walk home you know and uh yeah yeah so

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_01]: it was uh very devastating um and you know one thing I wanted to circle back to with you Chris is

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_01]: just you know going through I know I know Lisa mentioned you kind of like kind of emulated

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Tony's career in a way being so civically engaged and going into law enforcement can you

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_01]: speak a bit more about like when like how you went about like I guess trying to like look into

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_01]: the case a bit yourself just like looking over the file like thinking about it in that way so sort of

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_03]: finds throughout Michael we're just investigation was reunited for whatever reason it was at the time

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_03]: and we had a file at the sheriff's office and I spoke to the detective and my spoken with

[00:41:02] [SPEAKER_03]: some of our past detectives that had involvement in the investigation and I was fortunate enough

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_03]: to be able to go turn the case file look at some things I thought some those from my grandpa

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_03]: that were in there it was just uh you know it's also a little bit of a unique dynamic as well because

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_03]: you had the abduction that occurred in college yaw school count and then the aftermath of it

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_03]: in noble count and then of course you had to stay police it comes in because of

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the dynamic of the event as well so I think everybody had their own little piece of the pie

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_03]: and as the court case the best years was in tune throughout the years as well there's a lot

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_03]: of information that was released to the media does yeah for me it's just something I've just

[00:41:51] [SPEAKER_03]: always wanted to see improved to completion some random guy all of me oh gosh probably

[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_03]: maybe two three years ago now wanted to sit down we had a chat and she sat down and spoke

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_03]: with our sheriff's and just went over some things and try the brainstorm because I believe

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_03]: she was preparing for another podcast at that time and just of course Miranda and I

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_03]: both come from town who graduated together and I think there's just that shared interest

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_03]: here so I went through everything again I think that everybody had

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_03]: some theory some speculation on it but it just never set well with me and maybe it was because

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_03]: it was just the unfounded aspect of it but I'm just so thankful that they concluded the way

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_03]: it I don't know from what I was able to discuss and what I can discuss now with them

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_03]: there was just never that major perhomial smoking gun that way the case out in front

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_03]: and I know as an investigator that becomes a challenge and a lot of us are up for a challenge so

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_03]: I'll get him credit again just the way that they had handled us throughout the years to just never give

[00:43:27] [SPEAKER_03]: up because you always and I don't care if this happens in Northwestern or Chicago

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_03]: wherever it should never happen and you always have unintended things children, siblings, parents

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_03]: and I know that's why it's important and that's why I love what you guys are doing because you're

[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_03]: sharing those stories and keeping those cases alive because if we're not then I won't

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: we really appreciate that and and for me I feel like this story speaks to even in a wonderful community

[00:44:06] [SPEAKER_01]: where people are connected and it is safe people should be aware and it's not about scaring people

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but it is about stating that like there are bad people out there I mean they're just are

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_03]: evil evil and so you status block all the people or sat across the table

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_03]: conducting an interview with evil I can't see here and describe people to you

[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I can tell you it's a look at an eye body language that's the personas maybe the intuitive factor

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_03]: that they're giving off but there is not everyone is exposed to that and we want to

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_03]: still think that life is innocent and this will never happen in Northwestern in the

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_03]: know where Montana we want to think that this just isn't possible but unfortunately it is

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious this is a question for you both have there been I mean have there has there been any sort

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_01]: of change in the air in Northwestern since the news came in that these arrests were made

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_05]: well there was I mean it was all over social media yeah yeah just saw you know people are

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_05]: you know well we need to we need to do something we need to you know have a bench made or

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I was just sitting here thinking that when this is over maybe like a candle lighting up town

[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_05]: something in her memory you know just because granted you know a lot of

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_05]: older people that were are so alive that were here then and just the my generation and

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_05]: even as far down as Chris's because of parents you know I think it'd be just cool to do a

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_05]: like a candle lighting up town with her you know family members that are left

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously we would get a hold of them but that's what people are talking about is having

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: some kind of something in memory of war you know which yeah I said and I did agree to that

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I jumped in on one of those conversations on Facebook and I said that yeah I think we need

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_05]: to do something for her as well as long as it's family approved you know yes but yeah so it's

[00:46:20] [SPEAKER_05]: it has you know it's calm down now I'm sure people are still talking obviously but and it'll

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_05]: come back out there's the as the trial gets go mm-hmm yeah so yeah so but you know that's just

[00:46:34] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I mean that's many many years of waiting and wondering and hoping you know

[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_01]: right so crazy I love it and I love that idea because it's like and that's one thing why I'm

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_01]: so grateful that you both are speaking to us and for everyone who spoke to us for this show is

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_01]: because well I mean it's not even just about like here's this crime it's like loral as a person

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_01]: as an individual mattered and like not losing sight of that and it feels like the community is

[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_03]: doing that absolutely loral matter every victim matters and it is so important to keep their

[00:47:13] [SPEAKER_03]: stories alive yes yeah um all the way across the board family for this and yeah I just

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_03]: I can't and I'm sure the details can balance as the proceedings go on and some of that

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_03]: I can speak from personal experience there are a lot of things that ultimately we don't want to

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_03]: know all right we don't want to know and it's really better off that people don't know

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_05]: was just the fact they were admitting it yeah they were admitting it as parties I'm like

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_05]: that's just I just that is it I can't even believe that so and then there's tip you know she was

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_03]: tipped yeah oh yeah yeah I think it's important sometimes the details are not always what folks

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_03]: need to hear and I just I just want to know what the motive was that's I think the

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_03]: million dollar question what why what why did she say it was me they were either probably high

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_05]: or drop the clothes and they were out of their heads and they made a really bad say just wanted

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_01]: to ask you both and I have a question that I want to conclude with but I wanted to ask you

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_01]: both first because you we've breathed through all of our questions is there anything that we didn't

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_01]: ask either of you about that you wanted to mention and then I'm going to ask you what you think

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_01]: how do you think your grandfather and your father respectively would react

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_01]: if he if you could tell him today that Laurel's case has been there's been two arrests made

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_05]: wow he would be he'd be relieved yeah he would be relieved he would be shocked

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_05]: that it wasn't who he suspected that it was and but he would be he would be relieved for the

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_05]: family for sure that it was finally solved yeah it'll really for the community yeah yeah so

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_03]: that's yeah I'd say this thing then he'd be relieved and I'm sure he probably wouldn't

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_05]: try to yeah I know yeah I think didn't Sarah Sarah's gonna attend the trial I think didn't she tell you

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_05]: that yes I believe that I believe she did yeah so that yeah that's probably where you'll get a lot

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_05]: more information in time but I think the key point that I would leave with is that there is no

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_03]: exploration on justice no and this is a prime example right here of a combination of not giving up

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_03]: on an investigation and scientific progression that really brought this all together and to see

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_03]: these guys for all these years I would assume out of the back of their mind that they're never

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_03]: going to be caught well so maybe they were just waiting maybe they were just waiting for that knock

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_05]: on the door to come it so hard to tell yeah only because they were telling people right they were

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_05]: telling people what they did or we was a bandit or the other one which one was telling people

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_05]: party I think they both were were they both bragging about it yeah maybe it was both of them

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_05]: that's the bizarre part so did they just think they were going to tell people what they did

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and it wasn't going to go anywhere that's that's another thing maybe there's arrogance

[00:50:58] [SPEAKER_05]: that's behind it but matter their brains are just tried at which they look so maybe that could be

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_03]: it but I don't know but thank you but it's never too late and I think this falls in coming from

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_03]: law enforcement somebody knew obviously their work that still would get and for any case for

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_03]: any of that matter it's never too late to disclose the information that you have and that's

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_03]: just based on rights that is being the decent human being that we're all going to become

[00:51:36] [SPEAKER_03]: unfortunately some of us take a different direction but it's never too late to give

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_03]: just the final tidbit of a kid that you may have awesome well listen this has been amazing

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we've gotten to know your your dad and granddad better just from talking with you

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_01]: and I mean we already had kind of a sense of who he was but some of these details have been

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_01]: amazing and and getting to know north webster and just also both of your journeys with this case

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_01]: Lisa from you being kind of on the ground there as a kid and sort of seeing this unfold in

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_01]: real time when you were so young and then Chris you sort of picking up the mantle later on

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_01]: and trying to see if there's any way to you know look look at the case in a different way

[00:52:18] [SPEAKER_01]: and I just I want to thank you both so much for trusting us with your stories

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah well yeah I always spoke I always wanted to know what I could and to see if there was

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_03]: anything that I could do a fast one for my grandpa of course he was always the one to get

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the long information but I would make sure that anytime that the investigation was

[00:52:36] [SPEAKER_03]: and some resurgence that he knew and his story was sold yeah he was always he just

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_05]: never he never gave up on it never never not one and we're talking decades here and he never

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_05]: never gave up on it that was just pretty amazing even after Wilma and uh Dick had passed

[00:52:58] [SPEAKER_05]: he still was on it in his you know like I said he looked at be 96 so he had his mind up until

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_03]: the point up until the night that died he still has his mind still has yeah memory

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_05]: like no other yeah yeah yeah except for Dean

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_05]: oh man but yeah his legacy will live on forever and ever and ever here um yeah so yeah more so than

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_05]: than us that here are still still here so yeah he's even somehow that's for sure

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah it really sounds like it and it sounds like that determination that he brought to the cases

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_01]: would ultimately you know end up saving the day basically where just keep trying and then

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_01]: eventually the technology clicks the tips click and progress can be made

[00:53:53] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I mean he was pursuing it like he would he would go and speak to whoever that he needed to

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_05]: to hear of him you know like he just he just would not let it rest

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_05]: and he's he kept it going like you know we might yeah obviously time passed time passed and then

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_05]: all of a sudden he's bringing it up again you know and it's like wow yeah he just was not

[00:54:19] [SPEAKER_03]: he was not gonna stop until the end well when you look out my grandma was in the nursing home

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_03]: camp but she she the house they lived in up to the you you look out on the lake and just a little

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_03]: off of their view of the lake just to the northeast is that for yeah yeah so every time

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_03]: they even sit down he always sat outside on the porch but every time that he was sitting

[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_03]: outside we would have been looking off in that direction and those things don't lead your

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_01]: life yeah we want to sincerely thank Lisa and Chris for sharing their memories of Tony

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Stromback with us we really appreciate it thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet if you

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_02]: have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover please email us at murder sheet at gmail.com

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_02]: if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime please report it to the

[00:55:14] [SPEAKER_01]: appropriate authorities if you're interested in joining our patreon that's available at

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_01]: www.patreon.com slash murder sheet if you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_01]: you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murder sheet we very much appreciate any support

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_02]: special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee who composed the music for the murder sheet

[00:55:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and who you can find on the web at kevin tg.com if you're looking to talk with other listeners

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_01]: about a case we've covered you can join the murder sheet discussion group on facebook

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_01]: we mostly focus our time on research and reporting so we're not on social media much

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_01]: we do try to check our email account but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_01]: thanks again for listening beat the summertime sluggishness and enhance your every day with

[00:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: our wonderful sponsor via hemp this is accompanied the crafts award-winning premium thc and thc free

[00:56:25] [SPEAKER_02]: gummies with high quality hemp grown right here on american farms all for an excellent value

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_02]: especially for murder sheet listeners who get a special deal if you're 21 or older you can

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_02]: experience it for yourself and get 15 off your first order with our exclusive code msheet at

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_02]: via hemp.com that's v i i a h e m p .com each of vias gummies is crafted to give you a specific

[00:56:56] [SPEAKER_01]: mood get creative get some rest get focused get some pleasure all with vias delicious gummies

[00:57:03] [SPEAKER_02]: no matter what you're looking for vias has you covered their grapefruit cbg and cbd flow state

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_01]: gummies helped me feel energized and focused to get a lot done this summer in terms of

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_01]: scheduling conducting interviews running around after sources and more you don't need a medical

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_02]: card to enjoy via hemp and these products ship legally to all 50 states if you're 21 and older

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_01]: head to via hemp .com and use the code msheet to receive 15 off that's v i i a h e m p .com

[00:57:37] [SPEAKER_01]: and use code msheet at checkout after you purchase they ask you where you heard about them

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_01]: please support our show and tell them we sent you enhance your every day with vias