Extra! Extra! Fred Bandy Is Convicted of the Murder of Laurel Jean Mitchell

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: Content warning this episode includes discussion of the rape and murder of a child.

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_01]: So we have some big news in a case that we've been covering for a while now, and that is the murder of Laurel Jean Mitchell.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: This was a North Webster teenager. She was only 17 years old in 1975 when she went missing while walking in the dark from her summer job to an amusement park she was supposed to go to.

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_01]: She never made it there. Her body was later found in Noble County, having been murdered there.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is a case that has haunted a community. This is a case that haunted all of her friends, her family members, her parents have passed on, but her siblings are still alive.

[00:00:50] [SPEAKER_01]: And today, one of the defendants in the case was just convicted. So let's talk about it.

[00:00:59] [SPEAKER_01]: My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:01:02] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is The Murder Sheet.

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_00]: We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is Extra Extra.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Fred Bandy is convicted in the murder of Laurel Jean Mitchell.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So let's recap a little bit.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_01]: So this case remained cold or maybe I should say unsolved because it was being worked on.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01]: This case remained unsolved for decades.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_01]: It occurred on or around August 7th, 1975.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Again, Laurel was abducted from Kosciusko County, North Webster, which is a lake town in northern Indiana.

[00:02:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I guess sort of north central.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_01]: And she was transported to Noble County where she was brutally murdered after being raped.

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And there have been a number of suspects that have come up over the years, over time.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_01]: People said maybe it was linked to a possible cult, the Glory Barn people who were operating in the area.

[00:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: What's the Glory Barn people?

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_01]: The Glory Barn was a cult that came up around this time.

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And they were involved in a lot of things around not getting medical help for children.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Like there were a lot of child deaths and illnesses associated with them.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_01]: They were very radical.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_01]: They were based in a place called Wilmot, Indiana, which is a noble county.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_01]: Their official name was the Faith Assembly Church of Wilmot, Indiana.

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_01]: But they were called the Glory Barn because that's what they called their main building.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, the guy, the reverend who was the main instigator of all this was indicted because a teenager died in the congregation.

[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And then he himself later died because he refused medical treatment.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're sensing a bit of a pattern here.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a suspect associated with that Glory Barn that they looked at hard.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_01]: There were other people who came up.

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, frankly, this is a case where I got the sense, as happens when there's a case that is not solved for a long time, a lot of different people had their own suspects.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_01]: It might be like you'd ask, you know, 10 people in the area or 10 investigators and they all might come up with someone a little bit different.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: And that was just because it was unsolved.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So you had to look in all those directions.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that sort of unfortunately.

[00:04:20] [SPEAKER_01]: So so Laurel was going to meet some friends, good friends of hers that day.

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_01]: One of them we actually had on the show, a woman named Tony.

[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_01]: They were very close.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_01]: And because like the friends were the people she was supposed to meet that night and it never happened.

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: That was one thing that I think investigators were looking at hard in the beginning.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_01]: They kind of grilled some of these girls hard.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, where was she?

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Like, are you covering up?

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_01]: Did she she going to meet a boyfriend?

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Like things like that.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And there's one story about that Tony told that just has always stuck with me about how she she and others were being grilled by law enforcement right after the murders and being like shown pictures of Laurel's body.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_01]: These were teenagers themselves.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And I understand that in a case like this, there might be like that kind of rush to judgment or like a need to find out who did this.

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you want to scare the girls.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But they are teenagers, too.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_01]: They're reeling from the loss of their friend.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is incredibly traumatic for them.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_00]: And even today, it's difficult for me sometimes, if not all the time, to look at bodies of people who have been murdered.

[00:05:25] [SPEAKER_00]: That's a that's a terrible thing to see.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_00]: But imagine if you are a teenager and the body you're being shown a picture of is actually a close friend of yours.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine the trauma those girls went through over that.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:05:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really disturbing.

[00:05:43] [SPEAKER_01]: And this is.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it affected them.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_01]: It affected the way they all raised their children and affected other friends in the community.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: It affected.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_01]: So Dick and Wilma Mitchell were Laurel's parents and they were both very well known.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_01]: Wilma worked at a local grocery store.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Dick was a volunteer firefighter, was very involved in the community.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So people knew them.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And this was personal for them.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_01]: We also had on Chris Francis and Lisa Strombeck.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_01]: They were the grandson and daughter, respectively, of Tony Strombeck.

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And Tony Strombeck was the town marshal.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a man who who'd only died a few years ago, but he had worked on Laurel's case for years.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: He had his own opinion on who did it.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Turned out that that was not the actual perpetrator.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But he he took this very seriously.

[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_01]: He was friends with the Mitchells and it just it just shows you a case like this just shows you the spiral that one horrifying, selfish act can have on everyone, not just the victim, not even just the victim's immediate family.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Although naturally, they are the most affected.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_01]: They are the most harmed and hurt.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we talked to Sarah, Laurel's younger sister, and she, you know, in a way, it's like this happened recently for them.

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But it also has an impact on the wider community.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01]: It has an impact on trust, on how young girls feel about going outside alone.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we shouldn't live in a world like this, but we do.

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_01]: There are predators out there.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_01]: And for years, those predators were not identified.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Indiana State Police Commander Kevin Smith took over.

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[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a law enforcement official who I understand has actually been somewhat instrumental.

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_01]: I think he was highly involved in the April Tinsley case, which was solved.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_01]: That was a cold case that was solved recently out of Fort Wayne, you know, a few years back.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: But it was one of those cases that was like unsolved for years and then boom, DNA.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And he worked on this and same effect.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So DNA was taken and that DNA was used to kind of compare against all these different suspects.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's my understanding that some of this was actually discussed in court where they were like, OK, let's look at this guy.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_01]: Nope. Cross him off the list.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's look at this guy.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Nope. Cross him off the list.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, there was a man, actually, I think a number of tipsters, but tipsters who came forward and were saying, well, this guy, Fred Bandy Jr.

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: Confessed to this a number of times.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And these, you know, the thing, though, is like, here's what you have to remember.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: People do confess to crimes they didn't commit.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_01]: That can be through coercion, i.e. a detective is hammering you in a like an eight hour interrogation.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Or it can just be because you want attention, because there's some sort of underlying mental issue that's causing you to say that.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It can be you're trying to threaten someone.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to seem tougher.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to impress somebody like many reasons this happens.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that fair to say?

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_00]: That's very fair to say.

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We've seen that in a number of cases.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And you think normal people who are well regulated and well adjusted do not understand this.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't understand this at all because it's like, I would never do that.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_01]: I would never be claiming credit for something so awful.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_01]: But you're thinking in your right mind and you're thinking as someone who's not doing weird stuff anyway.

[00:11:08] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, maybe you're doing some weird stuff, but not that weird.

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It does happen and you have to be able to corroborate confessions as a result.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just otherwise, frankly, we get into a Henry Lee Lucas situation where you have like, OK, we'll just clear all our cases.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say you did all of them.

[00:11:24] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't want to have somebody who's just claiming credit without real evidence.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So, in this case, so Fred Brandy Jr. made those statements.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_01]: That's certainly something you have to check out as law enforcement, but it's not enough.

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, the DNA came back matching Bandy.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And what came out, the story that came out, was that he and a man named John Wayne Lehman were driving around and abducted Laurel, raped and then murdered her.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So, John Wayne Lehman, we did a previous episode on this.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_01]: He ultimately pled guilty to a lesser charge on this.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_01]: And there was a lot of complicated legal maneuvering, right, Kevin, where there was like, you know, that charge technically the statute of limitations was up.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01]: But through the negotiation, they went down from murder to that.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_00]: It was a very interesting case.

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_00]: We covered it in some detail in an earlier episode.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We did, and I'll link to that.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01]: But that was kind of an interesting move.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But what kind of came out, it sounds like, is that Bandy was the primary perpetrator and Lehman was more of the accomplice.

[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So I think there was that attempt.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_01]: When you have a situation like that, you're going to try to maybe make a deal with the person who is less culpable, still culpable, but less culpable.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And you're going to try to go for the main perpetrator.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_01]: And I should also note that Fred Bandy Jr. is a man who was ultimately arrested and charged with child molestation in the years since.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_01]: So while John Wayne Lehman does not have a criminal record, Bandy does.

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_01]: He's victimized other children.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's one very heartbreaking and unfortunate aspect of this case, because if somehow it had been solved earlier, perhaps that wouldn't have happened.

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And it also kind of maybe looks at maybe we have a sexual predator who is a serial offender in this instance.

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But what happened recently, so Lehman, as we mentioned, flipped.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like he was deposed and presumably gave an account of what happened that night when Laurel was taken and what his role in it and what Bandy's role in it was.

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So at that point, we're going towards a jury trial for Bandy.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_01]: OK, that's the next step in the process.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_01]: You know what's going to happen?

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, when you had the guy confessing to people, credible witnesses saying he's confessing, then you have DNA tying him to the scene.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the presence of semen.

[00:13:49] [SPEAKER_01]: This is not touch DNA.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_01]: This is not like, well, we might have briefly interacted, but it's just a coincidence or my hair got on something or whatever.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_01]: This is.

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, Laurel was a was a young, underage girl.

[00:14:01] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no there's no explaining that away, frankly.

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: And then you have, you know, that and then Lehman flipping on him.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Then you I mean, this was.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_01]: A very airtight case, like I would actually say airtight.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't call it strong.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know how you get around any of that.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what do you think?

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_01]: Am I overstating that?

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's a very solid case.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_00]: We talk sometimes about how in criminal cases people have unrealistic expectations.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_00]: They want a case to be as strong as something they would see on a television program.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: That usually isn't the case in life.

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But this case is strong enough to be on a television program.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a very strong case.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_01]: I really I really do.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that law enforcement did a very good job piecing it all together all these years

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: later.

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I called it a cold case at one point.

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_01]: But I really do think there were people working on this for years.

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you have efforts being made.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_01]: But if it's some sort of stranger abduction and there's no eyewitnesses or, you know, there

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_01]: were earwitnesses in this case.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, maybe maybe some eyewitness elements.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_01]: But if no one's able to say I saw Fred Bandy doing this, then it can be difficult to solve

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01]: that until you have the advent of DNA.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, not impossible.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_01]: But there was a lot working against this investigation.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And ultimately, that DNA was the thing that cinched it together.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: So one interesting thing, and I want to ask you about the legal ramifications about this,

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Kevin.

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: But one interesting thing is that, like, at the last minute, my understanding is that Fred

[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_01]: Bandy actually opted against a jury trial and requested a bench trial.

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_01]: What the heck does that mean?

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_01]: I know what it means.

[00:15:45] [SPEAKER_01]: But what does that mean?

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_01]: What does that mean?

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And why would you do that?

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_00]: A bench trial basically means that instead of being tried by a jury of your peers, as is

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: your right, you're just going to have the ultimate verdict be reached by a judge.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_00]: So you would still have some form of a trial where the witnesses will testify and attorneys

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_00]: offer arguments.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: But the determination of guilt or innocence is ultimately made by a judge.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_00]: And there may be many reasons to do that.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what was inside this particular man's head.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00]: But one factor could be something as simple as the idea of looking at the faces of, like,

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: 12 people who are hearing all these awful things about yourself might be just too much to bear.

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:16:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a judgment of your peers rather than this kind of all-powerful judge.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:16:46] [SPEAKER_01]: But I would – and tell me if I'm wrong, if I'm speaking incorrectly here.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_01]: But I would imagine that typically a jury trial is where you think you're going to win over sort

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_01]: of the everyday people and a bench trial.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01]: You'd have more, like, more success if there was, like, interesting legal issues that maybe

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the average person might struggle with but, like, a judge might find super compelling just law-wise.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_00]: That's also certainly very possible.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's what happened here.

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's what happened here either.

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: So at some point a list of witnesses was filed.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: These included a retired Indiana State Police official, Douglas Dukes, as well as Captain

[00:17:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Kevin Smith and Detective Arthur Smith of the Indiana State Police.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Dr. John Ramsey, the retired Noble County coroner.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah Knisley, who we interviewed, that is Laurel's younger sister.

[00:17:39] [SPEAKER_01]: John Wayne Lehman was listed.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01]: And then Indiana State Police Laboratory forensic scientist Sharon Pollack was called.

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_01]: And then exhibit list included photographs, the DNA analysis, different – the CV of Sharon

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Pollack, death certificate, coroner's report, autopsy report, different maps, video deposition

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_01]: and transcript of John Lehman, video interview of Fred Bandy Jr.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And to be clear, the prosecuting attorney on this one was James B. Morey.

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_01]: So he was the one leading the charge for Noble County.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_01]: And for Fred Bandy, the attorneys were – my understanding was James Jeffrey Abbs, John Seth Tipton,

[00:18:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah Elizabeth Ober were all listed as appearing for them.

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_01]: And the judge was Michael Kramer.

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_01]: So that's all – I always like to list the people because it's like – it's interesting.

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And then if they ever come up again, it's like, wow, we were really on top of things.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_01]: So that bench trial then took place, I believe, on October 7th.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: So now interestingly enough, and I'd be curious to get what your take is on this, but on October 1st,

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_01]: Fred Bandy filed a waiver of appearance at trial saying, quote,

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: End quote.

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_00]: The first thing that comes to mind, maybe you have a better idea whether or not that was the case here or not,

[00:19:42] [SPEAKER_00]: but the first thing that would come to mind is perhaps the individual has some sort of a health issue

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_00]: that would prevent them from, frankly, the ordeal of having to go through a trial in person.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: Does this gentleman have a health issue?

[00:19:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that there were health issues around John Wayne Lehman that actually necessitated him being transferred to Miami Correctional Facility,

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_01]: which is a prison.

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_01]: This was one of those cases that you had a pretrial defendant, a pretrial detainee being put in the prison system

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_01]: rather than the Noble County Jail because Noble County just felt they didn't have the resources to take care of him.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_01]: So that came up in the Delphi murders case with a lot of people debating Richard Allen.

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_01]: And while it's very fair to note that that's exceedingly rare, it does happen in certain instances.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And so with Fred Bandy, these are both elderly men.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It would not surprise me if there were health problems there, but I don't know that for sure.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I...

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll make the obvious point.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: We all have a right to face our accusers in court, but that doesn't make it an obligation for us to do so.

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_00]: So you have the right to waive it and just have your representatives, your attorneys handle that for you.

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And that certainly was what happened here.

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_01]: So October 7th, 2024, there was this bench trial.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_01]: It was one day.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Is that normal?

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Again, on television, we're used to really long, dramatic trials.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_00]: And I think those of us of a certain age remember the OJ Simpson trial, which seemed to last the better part of a year.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, murder trials don't necessarily have to last a very long time at all.

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of times there isn't really a great deal of evidence to be presented.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: I think last year we attended a murder trial that was defended by Andrew Baldwin.

[00:21:38] [SPEAKER_00]: And I believe that only lasted a few days.

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: Right.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I would say, you know, typically, typically they're much shorter than you would think.

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_01]: And that day on the MyCase came the hearing journal entry.

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It said, quote, state by James Mowry and Leslie Haynes, defended by James Abs and Sarah Ober.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_01]: Bench trial held and concluded.

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_01]: Court to reconvene 10-8-24 at 1 p.m. with the verdict.

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Defendant is to appear in person.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: End quote.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it unusual to have the verdict from the judge so quickly?

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Judges know their stuff.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_00]: They know their law.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00]: They don't necessarily have to spend a lot of time weighing it.

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_00]: When you hear judges on the appellate level or whatever take a long time to issue rulings in those cases, that's often when there are compelling or complicated legal issues for them to research.

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_00]: As you indicated in your discussion of the evidence, the evidence in this case was actually fairly straightforward.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not really sure why it would take much time to reach a conclusion.

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_01]: There are cases where you might have some things that seem straightforward and then maybe the defense attorneys were able to raise questions about how the evidence was obtained or whether it's actually as conclusive as it seems.

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: Or, you know, there are instances where you can say, well, there's going to be room for argument here and we're going to have to see who the judge or the jury finds more compelling.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I think I said I thought it was a strong case before.

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But I guess I want to say, like, my thinking along these lines was when I saw the evidence against him was there's no way he's getting out of this unless there is something we don't know about from like a catastrophic discovery issue mistake that gets everything thrown out.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_01]: Or like people are outright lying or like there's, you know, like beyond something kind of like unthinkable.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01]: There's no way he's not getting convicted.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: The case against him was that solid, that airtight.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's yeah, I was no way this guy's walking.

[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And that turned out to be unsurprisingly correct.

[00:23:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Because today, October 8th, I believe, 2024, I don't even know what day it is.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01]: He was convicted.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So Fred Bandy Jr. was convicted of the murder of Laurel Jean Mitchell.

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_01]: So now you have a plea from one of the perpetrators and a conviction for the other.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And the next thing on the agenda, we saw a filing order for pre-sentence investigation report.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_01]: The Noble County Probation Department is ordered to prepare and file a pre-sentence investigation report no later than October 15th, 2024, seven days prior to sentencing hearing.

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Sentencing hearing set for October 22nd, 2024 at 1 p.m.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Signed, Michael J. Kramer.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_01]: Or so ordered, October 8th, 2024.

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Michael J. Kramer, Judge, Noble Circuit Court.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_01]: So there you have it.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_00]: A pre-sentence report, of course, is something that would contain all the information a judge might like to have about a person before passing sentence on them.

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_00]: What is their background?

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: Are there things in their background that should make us punish them more severely or less severely?

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: So those happen as a matter of course.

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_00]: And generally speaking, those are held confidential because they can contain a number of very personal and private details about the subject.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_00]: Every sentence he's likely to get is likely to be a life sentence.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_01]: I would hope so because I think that is deserved in this case.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Laurel Jean Mitchell was a 17-year-old girl.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_01]: She was absolutely beloved by her friends, her family, her community.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_01]: She had a lot going for her.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_01]: She was incredibly intelligent.

[00:25:57] [SPEAKER_01]: And she was going to do great things in life.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And because two men decided that they wanted to rape somebody that night, she ended up not getting to live the life she deserved to live.

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's cases like those where you have predators who decide that their own sexual gratification is more important than somebody else's life that just disgusts me.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_01]: And people like that do not belong among us.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_01]: They don't.

[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, her life mattered.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, anything less than what equates to a life sentence is an insult to her memory and to every family who's gone through something like this and to every survivor who survived something like this.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_01]: It just disgusts me.

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01]: But that's just me.

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_01]: You can have a different opinion, obviously.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_01]: We heard from people who are close to this case.

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_01]: We heard from Miranda, Tony's daughter, who, you know, again, she kind of grew up in the shadow of this case even though she never knew Laurel because that influenced Tony's parenting.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We heard from Tony who, again, like went through this incredibly traumatic thing.

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And not only that, losing a friend but also being a young girl in the community where it's unsolved, you might be thinking, is this going to happen again?

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_01]: And I get the sense that the people involved in this case are – there's no such thing as closure.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing brings Laurel back.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_01]: Laurel is not going to come walking through the door just because this happened.

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_01]: But at the very least, I think there is maybe relief would be the best word that someone is being held accountable for what happened, that the evidence has pointed to someone.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I imagine for the other men who maybe were under scrutiny at times in the past years, if people were whispering about them or some people thought they did, I imagine it's a relief for them too because finally they're vindicated.

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it was not them.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_01]: It was someone else.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: And we can say with certainty because of the DNA that this is the person who perpetrated this.

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the DNA and all the other evidence, frankly.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, I'm – I guess I'm – maybe happy is the wrong word, but I'm pleased on some level that many of these people who we've gotten to know through this case and the people of North Webster finally have some answers.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_00]: This has been a long time coming for them.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_01]: This has been an exceedingly long time coming for them, but it also is a good indication that if law enforcement officers like Kevin Smith and his team out of Indiana State Police, if they're able to put those resources and that energy into some of these cold cases, they are solvable and it is worthy.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I know it is very easy for civilians to sit here and say, hey, ditch all those current murders that are happening, you know, however many times, like a month or a week or whatever, and work on the older cases.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that resources are scarce and there are problems with doing that.

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_01]: But I also think that whatever energy, whatever funds can be spared should go into cases like this because I think a lot of them could be solvable.

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, yeah, that is – that's the latest.

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to be probably able to cover much else for a long time regarding Laurel's case just because we will be occupied with the Delphi murder trial.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, that goes for all cases we cover.

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be – it's going to be a while.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_01]: We hope to get back to them as soon as we get back and pick up where we left off, I guess.

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: Sounds great.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, thanks.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And we just wanted to update you all because we know Laurel's case has really reached out and touched a lot of you and we wanted to update this before we run off to Delphi forever.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_00]: Bye.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Shade.

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_00]: If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail.com.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_00]: If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet.

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_01]: If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet.

[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_01]: We very much appreciate any support.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00]: Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for The Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_01]: If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_01]: We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages.

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again for listening.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for sticking around to the end of this Murder Sheet episode.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_01]: Just as a quick post-roll ad, we wanted to tell you again about our friend Jason Blair's wonderful Silver Linings Handbook.

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: This show is phenomenal.

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_01]: Whether you are interested in true crime, the criminal justice system, law, mental health, stories of marginalized people, overcoming tragedy, well-being, like he does it all.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_01]: This is a show for you.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: He has so many different conversations with interesting people, people whose loved ones have gone missing, other podcasters in the true crime space, just interesting people with interesting life experiences.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: And Jason's gift, I think, is just being an incredibly empathetic and compassionate interviewer where he's really letting his guests tell their stories and asking really interesting questions along the way, guiding those conversations forward.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: I would liken it to like you're kind of almost sitting down with friends and sort of just hearing these fascinating tales that you wouldn't get otherwise.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: Because he just has that ability as an interviewer to tease it out and really make it interesting for his audience.

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_00]: On a personal level, Jason is frankly a great guy.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00]: He's been a really good friend to us.

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's fun to be able to hit a button on my phone and get a little dose of Jason talking to people whenever I want.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really terrific show.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00]: We really recommend it highly.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: I think our audience will like it.

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And you've already met Jason if you listen consistently to our show.

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_01]: He's been on our show a couple times.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: We've been on his show.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_01]: He's a terrific guest.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_01]: I say this in one of our ads about him, but I literally always – I'm like, oh, yeah, I remember when Jason said this.

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_01]: That really resonated.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_01]: Like I do quote him in conversations sometimes because he really has a good grasp of different complicated issues.

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_00]: She quotes him to me all the time.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_01]: I do – I'm like, remember when Jason said this?

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: That was so right.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I think if we're doing that, I think – and you like us, I think you should give it a shot.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Give it a try.

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you'll really enjoy it.

[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And, again, he does a range of different topics, but they all kind of have the similar theme of compassion, of overcoming suffering, of dealing with suffering, of mental health, wellness, things like that.

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: There's kind of a common through line of compassion and empathy there that I think we find very nice.

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And we work on a lot of stories that can be very tough, and we try to bring compassion and empathy to it.

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: But this is something that almost can be like if you're kind of feeling a little burned out by true crime, I think this is kind of the life-affirming stuff that can be nice to listen to in a podcast.

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_00]: It's compassionate.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_00]: It's affirming.

[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_00]: But I also want to emphasize it's smart.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00]: People – Jason is a very intelligent, articulate person.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_00]: This is a smart show, but it's an accessible show.

[00:33:51] [SPEAKER_00]: I think you'll all really enjoy it.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and he's got a great community that he's building.

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_01]: So we're really excited to be a part of that.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_01]: We're fans of the show.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_01]: We love it.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_01]: And we would strongly encourage you all to check it out.

[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_01]: Download some episodes.

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_01]: Listen.

[00:34:04] [SPEAKER_01]: I think you'll understand what we're talking about once you do.

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: But anyways, you can listen to The Silver Linings Handbook wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Wherever you listen to podcasts.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00]: Very easy to find.

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.

[00:34:15] Absolutely.