The Cheat Sheet: Attempts and Anesthesiologists

[00:00:00] Content Warning, this episode contains discussion of murder, of domestic violence, and of the sexual abuse of children. So today on The Cheat Sheet, we are going to be talking about cases as far flung as Minnesota, California, Louisiana, and Hawaii. So two of them are, I believe, attempted murders. And one of the cases jumped out at me because there's a hashtag associated with it.

[00:00:28] This is free cane, and I got scared there was going to be an uprising. But to the best of my knowledge, it has nothing to do with you. It's not because of my latest bust in a serial related theft. Running the cane train into a cereal factory. Nothing to do with that. Now you're just, now we're jumping the shark here. All right, let's do this. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist. And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet.

[00:00:54] We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet. And this is The Cheat Sheet. Attempts and Anesthesiologists.

[00:01:53] All right, so the first case we're going to talk about is a case out of Louisiana, specifically out of New Orleans. And my source for this was an obituary, as well as a press release from the New Orleans Police Department. And this was a listener request. So thanks very much to this listener who asked us to cover this. This was a young man named Josh Woodruff.

[00:02:19] He was killed on New Year's Day, so January 1st, 2016, in New Orleans. He was a tourist visiting from Nebraska. And a little bit of information on this guy. He was only 28 years old, really had his whole life ahead of him.

[00:02:35] He kind of, I think, from the obituary went by the nickname Woody sometimes and was living in Los Angeles, but originally from Nebraska, visiting New Orleans and was working at the company Soylent. But, you know, he just seemed to be like somebody who really was considered a very kind, compassionate person, very close to his family. Just an all-around terrific guy. And that's what makes this so incredibly tragic.

[00:03:04] Because he was killed in a really brutal, horrible way. And there's still no justice. They don't know who did this to him. So what happened to Joshua was that while he was visiting there for New Year's, he was hit by a car and dragged quite a ways, according to the police, from the French Quarter up to Interstate 10. And then across the Mississippi River.

[00:03:33] So, like, this car took his body quite a ways. Where he was initially hit was at the intersection of Domaine and Decatur Streets. And that's in the French Quarter. This occurred around 3 a.m. that day. And the car involved was a dark-colored four-door sedan. Now, police have released a number of images of this vehicle. Please click on the link in our show notes. You can review those images. They're in the post.

[00:04:03] They're very blurry. And they don't show a license plate. They don't even seemingly show a partial plate. Because none has been released, seemingly, from what I could tell. So this is all very troubling. He was killed. His body was found about half past 3 a.m. on the West Bank Expressway. Near what the police say was the General de Gaulle Drive exit. So, you know, the car's caught on security cameras. They see it.

[00:04:33] But it's just not really, unfortunately, it's not enough right now. So what this case could really use is people coming forward. People being aware that something happened. People being aware in the area at the time. Someone getting rid of a car that matches that description. Or having damage to a car like that. Or talking about this afterwards.

[00:04:57] Police really need someone to come forward and provide the sort of missing details that can get this solved and get some closure for this young man's family. I mean, this is truly horrible. So contact Crime Stoppers if you have anything. It's 504-822-1111. And there's also the homicide section of the New Orleans Police Department.

[00:05:26] That's 504-658-5300. But, yeah, this really heinous hit and run killing should be solved. And people should be held accountable. And, honestly, you know, it's one of those things where I, for some reason, like, I don't know why. But, I mean, I don't know if alcohol or narcotics was involved in this driver's decision making or what happened that evening.

[00:05:54] But to drag someone that far for that long, it seems like a possibility. And I really don't have sympathy for people who get behind a wheel when they're in that state. I think it's you're choosing to risk everyone else's life around you along with yourself. I understand that people make bad mistakes when they're under the influence. I certainly can understand that.

[00:06:21] I can relate to that given my experiences with drinking. But, at the same time, it's like, I just, I can't, I can't imagine doing that. Like, I just don't understand. And, in this case, it lost a very, you know, promising young person their life. So, there needs to be accountability. Anyways, thanks again to the listener who recommended that one. Well, I want to hop up to the great state of Minnesota.

[00:06:48] There's a couple of parts to this one. For the crime itself, my source was themirror.com. And for more recent developments, I relied on fox9.com and thelatintimes.com. So, this story I'm about to share goes back to a murder that happened in the Minneapolis area.

[00:07:17] A few years back, the victim was a woman named Monique Baugh. I want to mention her up front because the story is going to go off in a couple of other directions. And I just want to center it as much as I could on this poor woman, Miss Baugh, just 28 years old. For our purposes today, there's really no point in getting into the gruesome details of her murder.

[00:07:47] I'll just say it was very, very bad. Just a terrible crime. And it involved several people who committed the crime or who were involved in planning the crime. And so, one of the people involved in planning the crime allegedly is a man named Lyndon Wiggins.

[00:08:11] He was actually already been convicted for his role in that crime. That conviction was overturned and he's facing a new trial. And the reason we're talking about it today is because of his defense attorney. This is a woman named Sarah Gad. And she, in her background, and there's a reason I'm going to mention this, she does have a history of some nonviolent drug-related offenses.

[00:08:40] She's actually been incarcerated for that, according to the Washington Post. So, recently, investigators actually did a search of her home because they suspect her of being involved with smuggling drugs into prison when she goes to visit her clients like Mr. Wiggins. And the way she would do that is she would give the prisoners paperwork,

[00:09:10] which had been soaked in fentanyl cocaine or things of that nature. And I want to emphasize that Ms. Gad very, very strongly, emphatically denies those charges. She's very offended by them. But I should also note that when police did a search, which is outside her residence,

[00:09:36] they recovered liquor bottles, a syringe, a prescription with her name on it, and the bottles are said to have tested positive for traces of cocaine, MDMA, and heroin. When they did the search of her home, they found stacks of white paper and a plastic baggie with some white powder residue.

[00:10:03] But she says, oh, you know, some of these tests for drug residue and such, they get false positives. I emphatically deny these charges. But as you imagine, if you live in a community and a noteworthy, prominent defense attorney in that community

[00:10:23] who is involved in high-profile cases, if such an attorney is suspected of smuggling drugs into the prison, and those suspicions rise to the level that her home is being searched, that's going to attract a lot of attention, isn't it, Anya? Absolutely. So this was very, very widely reported.

[00:10:50] And so Ms. Gad argued to the trial judge in Lyndon Wiggins' upcoming trial. She said, because of all of this publicity about me being allegedly involved in drugs, that's very, very negative. And I'm concerned that because of that, no jury would be able to view this case in an unprejudiced way.

[00:11:17] They're going to think of me being falsely, in my mind, implicated in this situation. And so the only possible thing to do in this situation is to dismiss all charges against my client. Making it work for you. Wow. What's your reaction? That's dumb. I mean, he's accused of murdering a woman. It's not, you know, like, no. But, I mean, I don't know. Would the thing to do be to stop representing him

[00:11:46] and let someone who's not being investigated for drug stuff? I don't know. That would be one option, I would imagine. Seems like there's other remedies other than dropping the charges. I mean, I could understand if she's like, that should not be brought into this. That's fair. That should not be brought into the trial. I mean, no offense. I mean, this may be getting a lot of press coverage in the Minnesota, Minneapolis region. I mean, I've never heard of it. I don't think that this is, like, wall-to-wall coverage.

[00:12:16] I think they'll probably be able to get a jury pool that's not aware of what's going on. Yeah, that's what the judge said. You know, there's a jury selection process. We can weed out people who may have heard about news stories involving this particular investigation. But, yeah, it's interesting because if it had worked, don't you think there are a lot of very devoted defense attorneys out there who would be willing as a last-ditch effort to get themselves falsely implicated in crimes

[00:12:46] so that all of their clients would get their suits dismissed? Framing themselves. Yeah, well, the prosecutor has the opportunity to do the funniest thing in the world when they're accepting a, like, paper exhibit from her. I'm just kidding. No, they should not do that. And I don't think it should be brought up in her client's case because that wouldn't be fair to him. I think if they try to sneak that in there, then that would be inappropriate. But, you know, just pick people who aren't aware of it. And I guess I just have a question.

[00:13:15] This is a lack of familiarity on my part with drug culture. But what's the point of putting drugs allegedly in the papers? Like, do people get, like, a high from that? Or do they, like, break down the papers and use that? Like, what's going on here? Yeah, you're asking me a question about how to use illegal drugs. You seem really experienced. I'm just curious if the articles explain that.

[00:13:46] The articles just seem to suggest that this is a way to get drugs into prisons for people to use inappropriately. They don't really explain the mechanism of how the people in prison, I guess, would use the drug-soaked paper for their pleasures. I used to watch this sitcom called Keeping Up Appearances with my grandma and my mom.

[00:14:14] It's, like, about this British lady who's, like, super into being, like, really upper class and stuff. And she's always sending out invitations that she's, like, spraying with perfume and sending out to make them smell nice and all fancy. And that's sort of what I'm picturing here. But I don't know. Well, I took a closer look at one of the articles, and it does indeed answer your questions. Oh, thank goodness. And I regret the fact that I somehow looked this over earlier. Quote.

[00:14:41] I'm glad you don't know how drug stuff works, Kevin. That's not something. Quote. Those allegations focused on paperwork laced with drugs. And these are worth big money in lockup as inmates can rip off pieces and put them under their tongue for a high. End quote. Oh, God. Okay. Well, I mean, you do hear about prisons and jails where drugs are amok, and you're kind of thinking, how?

[00:15:09] Because you're supposed to be locked up, and that shouldn't be happening, but it does. It does. And that's actually the reality in, I think, a lot of places, maybe even most. But in this case, you know, I mean, she's innocent until proven guilty. And, you know, if they can show that this is a false positive, then I think people certainly owe her an apology. I cannot stress enough that Ms. Gad is vigorously contesting these claims and that no charges have been made.

[00:15:39] Also, all that's happened is there have been some accusations and a search. And to rise to the standard to get a search warrant, that's an easier standard to reach than actually arresting someone or convicting someone. So she is contesting this. Let's talk about one of our favorite people who also happens to do one of our favorite podcasts. Obviously, I'm talking about Jason Blair and his show, The Silver Linings Handbook.

[00:16:05] You probably recognize Jason's name because we've been on his show and he's been on ours to talk about true crime ethics and the media. He's always got thoughtful insights to share. Plus, he's got all kinds of ideas on how to make true crime a more respectful and compassionate space. The Silver Linings Handbook is a weekly podcast that's totally interview-centric. So you get to hear Jason's in-depth conversations with all kinds of inspiring people.

[00:16:31] You'll hear discussions about well-being, mental health, the law and the criminal justice system, true crime, religion, and marginalized communities. And just about everything in between. For all you true crime fans, he's had on the hosts of The Prosecutors, The Consult, and yours truly. Jason is a wonderful person with a seemingly endless well of compassion and empathy for others. That serves him quite well as an interviewer. We were really gripped by his recent conversations with the daughter of a murdered police detective,

[00:16:59] the sister of a missing Native woman in Montana, and Gabby Petito's father. These were all humanistic and in-depth talks that got to the heart of topics like grief, advocacy, and abuse. We've always enjoyed our conversations with Jason on The Silver Linings Handbook and behind the scenes. Getting to listen to a show is a bit like dropping by for one of those talks. Subscribe to The Silver Linings Handbook wherever you listen to podcasts. There you go. Well, it'll be interesting to see what ends up happening.

[00:17:29] Does it kind of just go away and maybe she was innocent and wrongfully accused? Or does this go somewhere and she's been doing something terrible? And even in the paperwork, they say it's possible that she could be an unwitting part of this. That in other words, someone else is soaking the paperwork in fentanyl or what have you, and she's passing it along to people in prison without realizing that. Right.

[00:17:53] So she's not necessarily, even if this is testing positive, she's not necessarily the problem here. Or, well, that's good to clarify and to know. But, yeah, wow. Do you think it would have been appropriate for them to throw out a case based on this? No, but I don't blame her for trying. No, you've got to try. I mean, you can't. Just because something's, like, not going to work or it just doesn't make any sense doesn't mean, you know, in most cases you've got to try.

[00:18:22] And also, frankly, from a PR move, I think it looks good for her because it's a way to show the world, not only do I contest these charges, but I'm going to stand up for the rights of my clients who I believe are falsely implicated by these charges or who may be affected by these charges. I'm not ashamed to deal with these issues. There you go. Well, interesting case out of Minnesota. Yes. So now I think we're flying out to Hawaii. The cane plane. The couch.

[00:18:52] Why? Just, yeah, whatever. So this is, my source for this was Hawaii News Now. And. I caught this case to your attention. You did. You mentioned it. And you knew I was going to be interested because we both really enjoyed our visit that we did to Hawaii. It's a beautiful, beautiful state. Wonderful people. And also, this is concerns. It's a disturbing story concerning an anesthesiologist.

[00:19:18] And the reason that kind of piques my interest is my dad is an anesthesiologist, but he's a very nice man and also not implicated in any crimes. But he listens to this show. So hi, dad. Thanks for listening. And, you know, anesthesiologists are the doctors who obviously focus on anesthesia. That's, in layperson's terms, in stupid terms, it's putting you to sleep before, you know, some sort of operation. And, you know, most of them are really smart, nice people. But unfortunately.

[00:19:47] And keeping you alive and safe. Keeping you alive. Yeah, they don't just, like, knock you out and go get coffee. They're supposed to keep you alive. Because I've learned from talking with your father and with yourself that the process of keeping someone's body functioning while they are knocked out is a lot more complicated than a simple layman like myself ever thought. Yeah, you don't, it's not just, you don't just, like, shut down the computer of a person. You have to keep them alive. And breathing. You can stop breathing during these procedures. It's very serious.

[00:20:17] And also it revolutionized medicine. So not to go off on a tangent here, but, you know, if you actually look into the history of anesthesiology, prior to that there was a lot that we were not able to do because you have someone who's conscience or they're like, you know, you got to get them drunk in order to operate on them. So once we were able to unlock anesthesiology, that really was able to expand a lot. So it's super important. We love the anesthesiologists. Shout out to my dad. Thank you for listening. We love almost all of the anesthesiologists.

[00:20:45] Yeah, well, there's one who allegedly we might not be so fond of. Yeah, this guy allegedly did something very horrible, but has nothing to do with the fact that he was a doctor. That just kind of, you know, got us interested. But yeah, shout out to the anesthesiologists. So this is a case that occurred on Oahu, which is, if you're not familiar with Hawaii, there's several major islands. That's the one where Honolulu is. It is, of course, the capital of Hawaii. And Pearl Harbor is there.

[00:21:15] Pearl Harbor is also there. So it's definitely, it's, you know, kind of an important island. This physician, although, is said to have lived on Maui, which is another important big island. They're all important. They're all important. But, you know, I'm talking about the bigger ones. So you got, this guy is named, I'm going to say his name wrong. I'm sorry. It's Gerhard Koenig or Koenig. I'm going to say Koenig.

[00:21:42] And so he's visiting seemingly Oahu from Maui. And he is alleged, so he was an anesthesiologist. He had a background in Pittsburgh, previously sort of an assistant professor of anesthesiology and bioengineering at the University of Pittsburgh. Has been living in Maui since 2003. He's married. He and his wife seemingly go on a walk.

[00:22:13] They're kind of going on a hiking trail in Oahu. And, you know, she, it's the, I'm sorry if I say this wrong, but I believe the Polly Lookout Trail. And at some point, the wife declines to take a, this is what's been described so far. All of these are allegations. It's important to stress that. Early days, but this is how it's being reported so far. The wife asks to take a photo. I'm sorry, he asks to take a photo with the wife.

[00:22:42] She declines. And seemingly he attacks her. So he tries to push his wife off the trail. He hits her in the head with a rock. And also seemingly tries to prick her with a syringe. Possibly on multiple occasions. So it's kind of a bizarre situation, obviously. Any sort of violence, you know, partner violence is bizarre and kind of unfathomable on some level if you really think about it.

[00:23:11] But at the same time, it strikes me as interesting that, you know, there's being a reason given for him being set off, which is like she doesn't want to take a selfie or a picture or whatever, which is bizarre. Because that's, there's no good reason to be violent against anyone. But that just seems like a pretty minor quibble. So, but that's almost implying that it's kind of out of nowhere. But then he seemingly has these syringes that he's trying to inject her with. And that almost sounds more like a planned situation.

[00:23:39] So we'll be curious to see what comes out of that. But anyway, so this attack happens and then he runs for it. So, you know, he's actually kind of on the lam for a little bit. The attack occurred around 10 a.m. in the morning. And then 6 p.m., Honolulu police officers do a foot chase with him. So they're running down the Pauley Highway. And, yeah, and they catch him. They got him. So he's been arrested.

[00:24:10] And, you know, this is, you know, the wife survived. She's at the hospital. She is in critical condition. And I thought this was a really insightful kind of statement from Sano Kayue. I'm sorry if I'm saying her name wrong. But she's with the Women Helping Women. It's a sort of organization that deals with domestic violence.

[00:24:37] And she said, quote, both prominent people in our community, not just him but also her, highly intelligent, highly successful folks. DV does not discriminate. I think time and time again people are so surprised when they hear it that it's their teachers, it's neighbors, it's attorneys, it's everybody from every single walk of life can be affected. End quote. I wanted to highlight that because I think sometimes people talk about domestic violence like it's happening to other people. You know, but you think, oh, these people are educated. They're highly qualified. They're highly respected.

[00:25:06] No way something like that can happen. Domestic violence can happen to anyone in any walk of life. It's really, you know, it's, we can't treat it like it's something that's totally unfathomable or can never affect any of us. It could affect anybody. It could affect men, women, whoever, people who are married, people who are not married. You know, it's just something that's unfortunately a scourge in society.

[00:25:34] And we have to be aware of that and not think anyone is immune. And so I just thought that was a very profound quote from this person. I agree. Thank you for highlighting it. From this advocate. And yeah, obviously, if it's true that this man attacked his wife in this way, that is horrific. And our hearts go out to her and, you know, there should be accountability there. As of right now, it's something where it's early days and he's been apprehended.

[00:26:03] But, you know, he's been apprehended and accused of trying to kill her. So it'll be curious to see what happens next. What evidence, you know, is this a plea deal? Does this go to trial? Is he contesting what happened? What goes on? We'll see. I think now we're going to do your case. Yes, this is a California case. And, you know, Anya, we've been doing... I don't remember when we started doing the cheat sheet. It feels like decades ago.

[00:26:32] But since then, we've done many, many shows of the cheat sheet. And I think in each episode, we do four to six cases usually. And each case has at least one source, maybe multiple sources. So we've used all sorts of sources. And we will continue to use all sorts of sources. But today, Anya, we are using a great source. We have never used this source before. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say we will probably never use this source again,

[00:27:01] even though it's a fine source. When is it? Well, I'm going to name three of my sources here for this next case. And let's see if you can guess. One of the sources is the LA Times. Another one of the sources is ArizonaCentral.com. And the final source is MMAFighting.com. Oh, my goodness. Well, I think it might be that one. They did a great job covering this. And so you may already be familiar with this.

[00:27:30] This is the tale of Cain Velasquez, who is a former mixed martial artist. And he, back in 2022, he got some absolutely devastating news. His four-year-old son had been molested hundreds of times by a person at a daycare. Oh, my God.

[00:27:56] And the person who did the molesting was a man named Harry Goulartey. And maybe I'm mispronouncing his name, but I'm okay with that. So this is who did the molestation. So this is devastating news. And I think this would be the sort of news that would be very difficult for anyone to deal with.

[00:28:17] And Mr. Velasquez, he was upset, and he took things to an extreme. He attempted to kill the man who had molested his child. He was kind of chasing him in a vehicle. He had a gun, and he was shooting at the vehicle.

[00:28:44] It was an 11-mile car chase. He shot and wounded Mr. Goulartey, and some other people in the vehicle also got wounded. And I should say that Mr. Goulartey survived, and he's not yet come to trial. So that's the situation.

[00:29:08] And when you look at it, you could argue that, well, this is premeditated attempted murder. Yeah. And you could then give him a huge sentence. But that seems like it would really be inappropriate. And I believe it was the MMA site that had a great story on this.

[00:29:32] And it talked about how the judge was weeping when it came time to pass sentence on this man. This man was incarcerated for a little while while awaiting this. He was moved into house arrest to be there for his child. And he ended up pleading no contest.

[00:29:53] The judge pointed out that this is a tragic case and that Mr. Velasquez is in no way a threat to public safety. The judge said the so-called mitigating – we always talk about mitigating factors versus aggravating factors. When it comes to sentencing, and the judge says the mitigating factors in this case really, really outweigh the aggravating factors.

[00:30:19] And so she gave him a very, very light sentence on a reduced charge. It's five years incarcerated. But he's already served some time, so it's likely going to be less than two years before he's completely free. Wow. Had the prosecution asked for a lot? And it looks like the judge was a guy, by the way. I think he said she. But, yeah, was there – were they asking for something heavier?

[00:30:50] Prosecutors asked for a sentence of 30 years. Oh, my God. Jeez. Okay. Wow. Okay. Well, I mean, I – that's – wow. And Mr. Velasquez has expressed remorse. From the point of view of the prosecutors, this was a planned thing. A guy is driving through the streets. He's firing a weapon. A lot of possibilities for innocent people to get hurt.

[00:31:14] And, in fact, there was someone else in that vehicle who is in no way implicated in the child molestation who also got hurt. Easy to imagine that person getting killed in this or things have gone a little bit differently. And the argument from the prosecution standpoint would be we want to send a message that vigilante justice is wrong.

[00:31:37] So I'm not saying I agree with that sort of thinking, but this is what the prosecution is likely thinking. That makes sense. It's funny. I'd be curious to know your thoughts on this. I'm so torn between kind of an abhorrence of vigilante justice. I really think that that's so corrosive. And if we start basically saying, yeah, go ahead and kill some people outside of, you know, the justice system, like, you know, unravels everything.

[00:32:04] And at the same time, I mean, if there was ever a point where vigilante justice was going to be something where you could find it more understandable, it's somebody's child being violated and attacked again and again and again. Hundreds of times. By a predator. And learning that as a parent. And who wouldn't want to go kill that person? I mean, like, let's just be blunt here. So I can completely understand that on a human level.

[00:32:30] It seems like if Mr. Velasquez was not found to be a threat in other ways and this wasn't connected to his normal routine or behavior flying off the handle, then I... And he's already expressed remorse for it. And he's expressed remorse. He's pleading no contest. Yeah, I think... So he's not putting the county through the expense of a trial. Yeah, he's not trying to mess around and act like something else happened. Or, no, I think these guys killed him, not me. So, I mean, good for him. I mean, like, yeah, that almost feels like two years is too much.

[00:33:00] I don't know. I mean, it's unfortunate that this other man got injured in the process of this, obviously. He wasn't involved in that trial molestation situation, then, you know, he certainly didn't deserve that. And I imagine, you know, there would be one, you know, wish for accountability on that part. But just like on a... Yeah, I'm not even sure now that I think about it if he ever actually hit the person he was aiming for. But he did strike Goulart's stepfather. Yeah. Who got non-life-threatening injuries. So, non-life-threatening...

[00:33:30] But, you know, it's certainly more tragic outcomes could have happened. But, yeah, like on a human level, you're kind of just like, I don't know, like, kind of give him a pass. You know? I... Even though, again, like, again, like, I'm normally the person where I'm like, no, he can't do that. That's not right. Like, that's... You can't... You can't just... Can't do it. But in this case, I'm kind of like, I don't know. Yeah, I understand your thinking. I think there needs to be a consequence because this sort of thing cannot be tolerated.

[00:33:57] But I do understand it and I sympathize. And in no way should he have been sentenced to 30 years to life. 30 years is ridiculous. That's... I mean, I get the prosecution. The state can't just be like, yeah, you know, go ahead. You know? Like, because then other people are going to do it. And also, you have to, you know, with vigilante justice, this is inevitably, it just becomes not no justice because you have people just claiming things and then acting out upon it. And it turns out, like, you know, they're going after people who weren't even guilty of whatever they were accused of.

[00:34:26] I mean, that's how we get lynchings, right? In this country's, you know, disgraceful history with lynchings. There would be situations that would happen where people targeted for the color of their skin or their backgrounds who would be lynched. And, you know, they didn't do anything, you know, they were the victims of a mob. But, you know, so you don't ever want to, we don't ever want to be, like, super tolerant about vigilante justice.

[00:34:52] But you also want to look at a situation where is the offender likely to go out and do something harmful again? Is this going to be something where this person continues to pose a risk? Does society benefit from keeping him away from other people and away from society? Or is this someone who perhaps can be rehabilitated, has learned their lesson, has learned that he shouldn't have done this? I mean. Yeah, I keep threatening. But one of these days we should do an episode just on sentencing.

[00:35:21] Just discussing what judges can consider, what the thinking behind it is, and things of that nature. Yeah. So, like, yeah, like how this works. Because it's not. Yeah. Yeah. I think it would be interesting. Maybe we could do an anatomy of a trial episode on that. But, you know, it's, yeah, it's very sad. I just feel very bad for Velasquez and his family that all of this happened. And, you know, it's truly tragic.

[00:35:48] I can't imagine the helplessness that a parent would feel in a situation like that. Right. And the rage, frankly. Well, yeah. So he's, so you say he's probably going to serve about two years? Yeah, maybe a little less. And there's, like, a hashtag free Cain thing that's about this. Yeah, his first name is Cain. Yeah. And it's spelled correctly, like mine. So good for them. No offense to the other, to the K-A-I-Ns or the K-N-E's.

[00:36:14] Well, you know, I, I, yeah, that's, it's very sad. I'm glad you didn't get a maximum sentence on that because that, that seems really excessive given the circumstances. Well, are we wrapping up now? We're wrapping up. We're getting out of here? We're getting out of here. You're laughing nervously. Never know what you're going to say. What? I'm just sitting here. I'm being a perfect gentleman. Oh, that's what you tell yourself.

[00:36:42] So we, um, we have shirts and a book. You know the drill. Come on. If anyone's listening to the first time, to the show for the first time, first of all, I apologize. Second of all, um, all the links are in the show. I noticed on, on Facebook, people are really curious to know why pre-orders matter. Do we discuss that? Are we allowed to discuss that? I think we're allowed to. I just didn't want you talking about stuff that we didn't like have locked down. So it's not like a secret.

[00:37:11] It's not like I'm trying to cover anything up guys. Don't worry about it. Stop asking me. It's because I think once you have a lot of pre-orders, you have momentum going into early sales and that can help sales pick up even further. It's like probably, you know. Well, my understanding is that on publication day, all the pre-orders that have stacked up basically count as people buying the book on one day, the publication day.

[00:37:39] And so if you have a lot of pre-orders that have stacked up, I know by gum, you've sold a lot of copies on day one and that increases the odds of making a splash on day one. And if you make a splash on day one, that really helps with momentum. Yeah, that's why I said momentum. It's all about momentum. It's all about momentum on the cane train. See, now I'm doing it. Got me doing it. I didn't even do it. Yeah, you know what? No, it's your fault.

[00:38:05] I was trying to transition earlier to the space age and do the cane plane. But if you want to stick with the train, I'm fine with it. I don't want any of this. You and your antics. All right. Well, I think we're done, right? Can I hit the button, please? I'm not stopping you. All right. I'm doing it. Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at

[00:38:34] gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities. If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet.

[00:38:55] If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support. Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for The Murder Sheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com. If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the

[00:39:23] Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening. Before we go, we just wanted to say another few words about Vaya. This is really a wonderful product.

[00:39:52] I think it's really helped both of us get a lot better rest. Vaya is pretty much, I guess you'd say, the only lifestyle hemp brand out there. So what does that mean? It means that they're all about crafting different products to elicit different moods. Kevin and I really like their non-THC CBD products. Specifically, Zen really helps me fall asleep. Some Zen can really just kind of help me get more into that state where I can relax and fall asleep pretty easily. And they've been such a wonderful support to us. They're a longtime sponsor.

[00:40:22] We really love working with them, and they really make this show possible. I'm going to say this, you may not realize this, but when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us, and it kind of makes it possible for us to do this show. So if you or one of your loved ones is interested in trying some of this stuff, you're going to get a great deal. It's very high quality, high value. Anya, if I wanted to get this discount you speak of, what do I do? Okay. If you're 21 and older, head to viahemp.com and use the code MSHEET to receive 15% off.

[00:40:52] And if you're new to Via, get a free gift of your choice. That's V-I-I-A, hemp.com, and use code MSHEET at checkout. Spell the code. M-S-H-E-E-T. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you, hey, where did you hear about us? Say the murder sheet, because then it lets them know that our ads are effective and it really helps us out. So, Anya, before we let people go, I wanted to talk again about the Silver Linings Handbook.

[00:41:20] And more specifically, I want to talk about Jason Blair, because certainly there have been times when something happens and we don't know what to do. We're just out here rubbing two sticks together and we need to turn to somebody for advice. I'm sure everybody's had that experience. We need to turn to somebody for advice. And one of the people we turn to most often is Jason Blair. And he's always been there for us. He's always willing to give you time. He's always willing to give you great advice.

[00:41:50] And so now what's wonderful is that everybody within the Sound of My Voice has access to his insights and his compassion and his advice, because you can find all of that on his podcast. Yeah, he's this podcast is a bit like being able to sort of sit down and sort of hear some interesting insights. I always feel inspired by it. He's had on some really incredible guests recently, and they've had just such like

[00:42:16] heartbreaking, real conversations with people like Jim Schmidt, who his daughter, Gabby Petito, was murdered. Jim just came across just as such a real and empathetic and wonderful human being. He was even given one of Jason's friends kind of told him recently about some abuse she had suffered. Jim was giving advice. I mean, it was really incredible. I'm thinking of Kimberly Loring. Her sister went missing in Montana. It's another case involving a native woman.

[00:42:43] So raising awareness about that, talking to the woman who lost her father, who was a Los Angeles Police Department detective. He was murdered so he couldn't testify at a robbery trial. Just like awful stuff. But ultimately, really focusing on the compassion and allowing people the space to tell their stories. I think Jason shines as an interviewer because he has that natural empathy and curiosity too. Whenever I'm thinking of a question like, oh, I hope they get into this, like he's asking it two seconds later.

[00:43:12] So it's a really enjoyable listening experience. And I feel like whenever we listen to it, you and I end up like discussing some deep stuff like religion or, you know, what we what kind of like positivity we want to share with the world. So I think if you're if you're looking for that and you're looking to have those kind of thought provoking conversations in your life, this is the show for you. 100%. So I would just say that if you're interested, subscribe to the Silver Linings Handbook wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome. Tune. You