The Cheat Sheet: Litigators and Letters

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_01] Content Warning, this episode contains discussion of murder as well as sexually motivated crimes. So, today on the cheat sheet we're going to be doing four cases. Two of them are not murders but they involve either violence or threats of violence. Two cases are in Florida, they come out of Florida. Another one comes out of Texas and then another is a case we've covered before that comes out of Hawaii.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_01] So, let's get to all of that. My name is Anya Kane, I'm a journalist.

[00:00:36] [SPEAKER_00] And I'm Kevin Greenlee, I'm an attorney.

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_01] And this is The Murder Sheet.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00] We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:00:48] [SPEAKER_01] And this is The Cheat Sheet, Litigators and Letters.

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00] Well, shall we get started Anya by looking at a case we've actually covered before? Yes. This is a Hawaii case. And we actually did a whole episode on it a while back. We talked with one of the attorneys on the case. I'm getting ahead of myself.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_01] One of the advocates on the case.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_00] One of the advocates on the case. Thank you for that correction. The latest developments we used as our source, thecivilbeat.org, which is a great source for all things Hawaii.

[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01] I am obsessed with them.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00] They do a great job. This is what local journalism is all about. I wish that every city in this nation or every city in the world had a news organization like this.

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_01] They feel very intrepid and like they're always really on the ball with kind of interesting stories. And again, I often decry that the sort of slow death of local journalism. It's really rough out there. It's terrible. But they're a shining star in that regard. And yeah, we really appreciate their work. So definitely read this article that we're going to link to. Read them. Subscribe to them if you're at all interested in things going on in Hawaii.

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_00] Yes, as apparently I am. So this is a case that goes all the way back to 1991 when a woman named Dana Ireland was raped and killed in Hawaii. She was actually hit by a car, then raped and left to die.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_01] She was only 23 years old and just visiting there for the holidays, I think.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00] Yes. A very big case. It attracted a lot of attention. For whatever reasons, it was a difficult case for the police to find enough evidence to make charges. But eventually they had some witnesses or they had people who purported to be witnesses and they ended up imprisoning a couple of brothers.

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00] The brothers' names are Albert Ian and Sean Schweitzer.

[00:03:46] [SPEAKER_01] So that's Albert Ian. Those are two brothers, not three. Yes. I think his name is Albert, but he's called Ian.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00] Yes. I mentioned we had an interview with a representative of Hawaii's Innocence Project who talked in great detail about all the work his organization did on this case and was able to help exonerate them. Part of those efforts involved the fact that they were able to finally test some DNA left on this poor young woman's body.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_00] And it went back to just one person. And the person it went back to was a man named Albert Loro. L-A-U-R-O. Police called him in to talk to him about it. This was last summer. And then inexplicably after having this conversation with him where presumably he was confronted with the fact, oh, your DNA was left on the body of this murdered woman.

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_00] They let him go. Representatives of the Hawaiian Innocence Project said that they warned police in advance of this. If you confront him, don't let him go. He'll either try to flee or he will try to kill himself.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_01] And we spoke with the co-director of the Hawaii Innocence Project. That's Ken Lawson. And I believe he even said that in the interview that they were, you know, concerned.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00] Yes, he did. If you're interested in this story, he tells it very, very well in far greater detail than I'm sharing here. And as it happens, they did let him go and this man did kill himself. And so that's where that story ends. The person who was ultimately responsible for the death of this woman will never face justice because he committed suicide. The brothers, now exonerated, have been freed.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_00] And the latest development is a somewhat predictable one. They have filed a lawsuit against the police for the bad investigation that resulted in their incarceration for years and years and years.

[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_01] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Now, what I'm seeing from this article is there's discussion of framing, right? Yes. They're framed in the murders. So, I mean, in a situation like this, you're going to need, you know, I would imagine a lot of evidence showing that as opposed to just, like, making a mistake. Does that, is that kind of fair to say?

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, they're accusing them of malicious prosecution. This suggests, yeah, that there were some deliberate actions here, that they should have known better, in other words. That this was not just simple errors, it was malicious. And that they intentionally inflicted severe emotional distress. Yes.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00] And I don't know, I've not sat down and looked at all of the evidence in their filings. And I don't know what further evidence they will have to present, but that's a pretty big bar to meet. I do imagine, though, I would predict that there would be some kind of a settlement before this reaches trial. What do you think?

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_01] I'm no lawyer, I'm just a humble journalist, so I don't know. But, I mean, I know, I mean, oftentimes there's settlements. It's obviously, I mean, they're in prison for many, many years. I know, I think, I think in the reporting it's alluded that county prosecutors still say, well, they could have still been involved. To me, whenever you have a situation like that where someone's DNA is found and there's no obvious nexus there,

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_01] you know, in our research in this case, I believe that the Loro did know the brothers, but that they were kind of enemies. So, I don't know, I mean, that kind of, like, if there's, if the theory of the case is that the brothers did it, and then that's completely blown out of the water, it's sort of hard to see how then, you know what I mean? Like, so I'm kind of a bit skeptical of that. But, so I don't know. I'll be curious to see how this plays out.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_01] At the same time, I think it is a high bar to kind of show malicious intent here. But perhaps the team that the brothers have got feels like they have that. So I'll be really curious to see how it plays out. But obviously in a situation where you have a wrongful conviction or possible wrongful conviction or what have you, I mean, it's kind of just compounding a tragedy because you have this murder of a young woman and then you have people who are getting punished for it when they didn't do it. So it just hurts them, hurts their families.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_01] It's just, it's a mess. So it's very upsetting.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00] It's very upsetting. And I think on some level, we all just, there's a principle of basic fairness. If they've been exonerated and they spent decades in prison and they now come out presumably without much resources, without much money, I think there's a certain level of fairness that says they should get something.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_01] I agree. You know, I mean, and like, here's, you know, it's honestly hard for me to talk about some of this stuff because I feel like there is so much innocence fraud out there. Like, I am highly skeptical of a lot of the discussions that go on when we're talking about wrongful convictions. And you look at it and you're like, that's not a wrongful conviction. This guy obviously did it. But it's being massaged in the public by media savvy, you know, attorneys essentially.

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_01] And so, like, it's a situation, I think, when you have people hammering on within true crime, that there are just scores and scores and scores and scores of wrongful convictions and everything's a mess. I think that that's vastly over-exaggerated, vastly overstated.

[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_00] I agree completely. It's certainly my cynicism on this subject has only grown exponentially since I started covering true crime. Same. Especially the Delphi case.

[00:09:46] [SPEAKER_01] I used to be a lot more credulous about this. I used to be like, oh, okay, wow. And now I'm like, oh, yeah, sure, whatever. Because I've just seen so much BS. But in cases where it does happen, and to be very clear, despite my cynicism, it does happen. It absolutely happens. It absolutely happens. And when it does happen, I mean, think of the wrong. I mean, years of your life taken away. You're not going to your job. You're not earning a living. And then you're just sort of deposited back out into society.

[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01] I think compensation in that situation is appropriate.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_00] One of the problems is that false claims of wrongful conviction make it more and more difficult to find the ones that are true.

[00:10:28] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, everyone's wrongful. I mean, that's what it feels like sometimes. It's like, yeah, everyone's wrongfully convicted, that stuff. I mean, like, it's, yeah, there's so much, and there's so much activism that I just think is based on fraud. And this, you know, there's a lot wrong with that. But in that case.

[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00] One of the problems in trying to ferret out which cases are actually true wrongful conviction cases and which are not is that, generally speaking, prosecutors, they don't talk to the press a lot for whatever reasons. I think they don't want to do anything that will come back on them and cause a possible appeal. They tend to be quiet and do their talking in court.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_00] Defense attorneys, on the other hand, like to get a lot of attention for their cause and for their client and try to rally support for their client. So because of that, when we look at stories about possible wrongful convictions or what have you, we are getting lots and lots of quotes from the defense attorneys and people connected to the defendant. And we are generally not getting lots of quotes or information from people in the prosecution side.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_01] One of the reasons I feel more comfortable with this situation, with the Dana Ireland case, is because the DNA angle. You have a situation where they're not finding DNA from these brothers. They're finding DNA from this other guy. And I don't know. I don't. I just realized something. I think when I was talking about Lauro, I said he might have been an enemy of the brothers. I think what I meant to say was there was a guy who initially accused them.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_01] He was their enemy. Yeah. And he said that they all committed the crime together. So I apologize for that mistake. I'm just like, whoa, wait. He was their enemy. And that always raised my hackles of, like, why would they all commit a crime together? Like, you know what I mean? Like, that doesn't really, I don't know. That struck me as odd. And that was never seemingly really explored in the investigation. Lauro, I don't think, was known to them. But if you have this guy who's just, his DNA is there, I don't know. I mean, it seems like a stretch.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_01] And I think in a situation like this, if you have the one guy's DNA that indicates he was involved in this assault and you don't have anyone else's, I'm comfortable with saying I believe that certainly sounds like a wrongful conviction. And if I see other evidence presented otherwise, I'm definitely open to changing my mind. But, you know, I think that's a very good sign to me that this was, that these brothers were imprisoned wrongly.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00] And one of the terrifying things about it is this man who actually committed the crime was free for 30 years after committing the crime. Some 30 years after committing the crime, this means that there was every possibility that he might have potentially victimized other people.

[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_01] Well, I think a lot of these guys don't. I think a lot of these guys, or not in the same murder way, I think, you know, I think sometimes you have people who keep doing it, serial killers. And other times they just slink back in to their normal lives and that's it. In a way that's almost scarier because it's not even a compulsion. They just did it and then never did it again. And then they're just acting normal for the rest of their lives. I mean, that's kind of unthinkable, I think, to a normal person.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_00] What's your first case of the day?

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_01] Well, my first case is a very, very sad case out of Texas. And my sources for this are KHOU11 as well as ABC13 and FOX26 Houston. So, this all goes back to a man named Robert Lee Davis.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_01] So, he is married and, you know, they basically, you know, I guess they're doing some kind of car work, car business. A man named Mike Howard comes to them and says, hey, can you look at my SUV and work on the brakes on it? Brakes aren't working.

[00:14:49] [SPEAKER_01] And Howard's SUV goes missing, so he makes a police report. Then, in October of this year, he's in Brazoria County in Texas. He's at a 7-Eleven in, I believe, Iowa colony. And he's there with his 17-year-old son, and they're just minding their own business. Davis comes in the store, sees Howard, draws a gun, and then shoots Howard in both legs.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_01] So, this is a very brutal, brutal shooting. Howard survives, and he actually kind of, like, blacks out. When he wakes up, there's a deputy over him who says, you're going to be okay, we're going to go catch him. And that deputy was named Jesus Vargas.

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_01] And he was one of the officers who was tasked with, you know, tracking down Davis. And Davis was apparently hiding behind, you know, in the area, and was able to, unfortunately, ambush Deputy Vargas and kill him. And there was a whole shootout.

[00:16:04] [SPEAKER_01] There was also a canine with the U.S. Marshals named Rocky, who was also shot. Unfortunately, Vargas was shot in the head, and he died. He's the father of three children. And canine Rocky did survive. It was one of those things where it could have been really bad, but the bullet didn't quite go into his spine, so he's believed to, he's going to recover, essentially.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_01] But it's obviously just this really horrible, horrible situation. And this, you know, this guy Davis, he was then also killed in the shootout. So it's just this kind of, like, senseless, horrible crime that left a law enforcement officer dead, severely harmed a canine. And I don't know. It just made me sad reading about it. One of our listeners was interested in this case.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_01] I think it got a lot of attention, especially for the canine being killed, but it's obviously just kind of an unrelenting tragedy, even though Rocky fortunately survived. I like the name Rocky, too, because that was my parents had a wonderful dog who passed away not too long ago named Rocky. So it's a great name, and I'm certainly glad he's doing okay. But, you know, your heart goes out to Deputy Vargas' family, and it's just one of these senseless things, like just some sort of stupid revenge thing where, you know,

[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_01] this guy and his teenage son are just minding their own business in a friggin' 7-Eleven, and then this, you know, guy comes in and just shoots him and sets this whole horrible situation in motion.

[00:17:41] [SPEAKER_00] It's terrible.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, it really is. It really is horrible. But, you know, that was, again, out of Texas. So I think now I have a case in Florida we can do. This is not a murder. This is another request from a listener, and it is really weird, and I don't understand it. But thank you to the listener for suggesting it.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_01] So my sources for this are the Tampa Bay Times, as well as Fox 13 News and CNN. And actually also Fox 13. Oh, wait, no, those are both. They're different stories, but the same source. So this whole thing is so weird. This happened in 2023. The case is still unfolding. You have this, the couple in this, they're just good Samaritans.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_01] I feel so bad that they kind of got embroiled in this. It's a man and a woman, a married couple, Ahmed Ghaf and his wife, Itifak Al-Montazer. I'm so sorry if I'm saying their names wrong. So they're driving in Florida, in Hernando County, and they see a car stopped in the middle of traffic, and they see a man sitting in the driver's seat.

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01] His name is Blake Sharp, and he's slumped over the steering wheel. They're concerned, understandably. As good Samaritans, they stop, they pull over, they get out, they try to see if they can kind of wake him up. He's not waking up. At one point, they're trying to get a tool to break the window of the car, see if they can get to him. And then Sharp wakes up, and he, I guess, hits the gas.

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_01] He starts trying to drive away. He plows right into their car. Then he kind of swerves and crashes into another car that's driving by. So those cars are kind of stuck together. The driver of the second car that he crashes out of gets out. That's a man named Patrick Scruggs. And Scruggs approaches the, you know, Sharp's car.

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_01] And he has a knife. He has a pocket knife. He gets out with a pocket knife. And then he's trying to, you know, he gets out and he's trying to unlock Sharp's door, window, what have you. When Sharp won't let him, he smashes the window open with the butt of his pocket knife and then starts stabbing Sharp after some sort of, like, confrontation. So then the police come. St. Petersburg police arrive.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_01] And they kind of, I guess, break it all up. No one was killed. But this whole thing is dragged on. And what's remarkable about Scruggs is that this isn't just any guy. He was with the U.S. Attorney's Office in Tampa. He was a litigator. He was a former prosecutor. So, I don't know. That just, I think that struck a lot of people as really weird. You know, I think we all see road rage incidents happen.

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01] But to have it be, you know, the possible perpetrator be a former prosecutor is really weird. But what Scruggs' defense attorneys are now seemingly alleging in some court filings is that, you know, Sharp may have been intoxicated. That he has a history of having these incidents and then claiming that he was in some sort of diabetic state. That he doesn't remember them. And that he's all these issues. And I think that's all interesting.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_01] But I don't know if it fully explains to me why there's a stabbing involved.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, and I'm going to ask you a question. You probably don't. I probably don't know. You probably don't have the answer to. Two, is it typical for people in a diabetic attack or whatever the proper phrase is to commit acts of violence?

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_01] No, no, no. No, no, no. It's not. So, I know they're all S names. Sharp is the one. The guy who got stabbed is the one saying, I don't remember anything. I was probably in some kind of weird diabetic thing. You know? So, he's the ostensible victim.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_00] Too many names.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01] Sometimes I actually get confused with names. I don't, like, this is going to make me sound like such a weirdo, but I mean, I'm starting it so I can't stop now. I always think of names as, like, colors. Yeah. So, like, sometimes if the names are the same color, even if they're kind of different, I get confused. It makes it harder for me to remember which is which. But anyways, that made me sound insane. I apologize. Let's move on. Let's all forget we heard that. Because I don't feel like editing this.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_01] I don't feel like doing an extensive edit on this episode. What's weird, so, what's weird is that it's kind of like, are the defense attorneys victim blaming here to protect Scruggs? Is there a reason, would there be ever a good reason that Scruggs would have stabbed Sharp? Like, was there a threat? I mean, like, it's hard to say. I just don't know. It's such a weird situation.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_01] And it gets weirder. So, it turns out, and this is in the filings, Scruggs' attorneys are alleging that Sharp was a confidential informant for the police as well. So, that maybe he got special treatment or they covered stuff up for him. But again, like, I mean, what Sharp was doing seems pretty bizarre.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_01] He's slumped over in his car. Then he's crashing into other people's cars who are trying to help him. That's all bizarre. I'm certainly looking at that askance. But I don't know that it fully explains for me somebody else coming, smashing his window open, and stabbing him with a pocket knife.

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, it's very odd. It's very strange.

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_01] I think if Sharp was the one getting out of the car and coming over to Scruggs and Scruggs starts stabbing him, then I think, like, I might be like, all right, there's some kind of self-defense situation going on here, or maybe he was afraid for his life. But he's approaching Sharp, and I don't know. Maybe there's some further information or context that would really sway me either way. But I think, again, to have a federal prosecutor, former federal prosecutor in this situation just seems really unusual

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_01] because you would think someone like that would be very cognizant of the law and not wanting to, you know, like, I'm sure when you're either a prosecutor or a defense attorney, you run into so many cases in your life, regardless of the side, where you're just like, wow, if you had just, like, taken a breath, calmed down, and walked away, you wouldn't have wrecked your life or had all these problems or what have you.

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_01] So, you know, to kind of get into this with this guy in this situation, it just seems really weird. I mean, I don't know. What do you think?

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_00] I think it's really weird.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, like, what do you make of it, Kevin? Tell me.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_00] I really wish there was some more details or information out there.

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_01] I feel like the listener suggested, they're like, this is odd. And I was like, yeah. And then I'm looking into it, and I'm like, I'm sure we'll kind of, I'm sure I'll have a sense of, like, what really, you know, went down. No, I'm more confused than when I just saw the headline. I feel like the more I'm looking into this, the more I'm really not, I'm glad no one was killed.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_00] So the listener submitted to us for our analysis and insights, and all we can say is, oh, we don't know.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_01] All we can say is, huh? Like, I don't get it. Maybe there'll be more information. I guess, like, you could say, you could probably read it two ways. If it's, if Scruggs is really the one at fault, it's like some kind of road rage situation. He's angry that his car got smashed up and he's going to take revenge. If Sharp is somehow the one at fault, I guess it's a situation where maybe he threatened him, or there was some kind of, he's going to go for a gun. I don't know.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_01] But, like, you know, it's, again, it's Scruggs approaching Sharp. You know, and I believe, I believe the assault was captured on video. So it's not really like a he said, he said situation. So it, I don't know. But maybe there's more information that we're lacking that will make everything clear. So I guess we can just.

[00:26:20] [SPEAKER_00] It's nice to have those dreams.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, nothing makes sense to me anymore.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_00] Well, I'd like to talk about another case out of Florida, and this is one that I got from the Palm Beach Post. You know, Anya, I am sure that you, as I, often as we look at some of the things that go on in this world, some of the acts that we cover on the show, that you, like I, sometimes think, how could a person do that?

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_00] And what they do just seems so outside normal human experience as we know it. It's just to leave us baffled. And usually that's like a really horrible offense. Yeah. In this case, which I think why you're laughing is because it's stupid. It's a crime they committed, but it's stupid. It's stupid. I am reminded of, I know, for instance, of a case where,

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_00] this is not the case I'm discussing, I know of an instance where an elderly man went into a phone store once and said, oh, I have a lot of child sexual abuse materials on my phone. Can you help me transfer it to my new phone?

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_01] Oh, my God.

[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00] Just stupidity. And so in this case...

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_01] I think a lot of criminals are pretty stupid. I don't think that's too controversial to say.

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00] Going out there on a limb with the... Yeah, I'm really going out there.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_01] I don't want to alienate anyone here, but...

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_00] So a 24-year-old man named Roosevelt Sifford, a few years back he was found guilty of a second-degree murder, and he was sentenced to up to 15 years for that crime by Judge Delia Weiss, who is the Supreme Court judge in Florida.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_00] And so now he has written her a letter in which he expresses his dismay about that sentence and suggests that she may come to violent harm if she doesn't do some undisclosed things, I guess, either reduce his sentence or not sentence his buddies to very long sentences. He says he is a high-ranking member of a gang,

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_00] and these things he speaks of are not threats but promises. And, of course, for obvious reasons, threatening a judge is a terribly serious offense because you're trying to influence a public official. You're trying to influence the administration of justice through violence, and that is something that, if it's allowed to happen, would threaten the integrity of the entire system. But this guy does it, and he does it in writing in a letter from prison. What?

[00:29:12] [SPEAKER_00] Why would you do that, Anya? Explain it.

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_01] Because you're just an incredibly stupid person, I guess. Stupid and impulsive and think you're powerful when you're not. You know, which kind of, yeah. I mean, I don't think you need to be a criminal profile to figure that one out. It's just, it's ridiculous. But honestly, it's disturbing in a way because there have been cases where judges have been targeted.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_01] I'm thinking of the Judge Esther Salas case where her family was attacked and her only child was murdered by some, like, crazy guy who wanted revenge on her. I think he was, like, this real anti-feminist person who was always suing bars for ladies' nights. I believe he was a lawyer himself. He went after her. There was also a case out of Maryland, I remember, where Judge Andrew Wilkinson was murdered

[00:30:12] [SPEAKER_01] because a man, Pedro Agode, was, like, mad about how he handled his divorce case. I mean, so you do have cases where judges are targeted and killed. And so, I mean, any threat against a judge, I think in this day and age, should be taken very seriously.

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_00] Extraordinarily seriously. He says, oh, I didn't write that letter. Incidentally, I'm not even in a gang. Wow. But copies of his letter have been submitted for analysis along with other things he's written, and it all looks very, very similar. And, yeah, it just seems stupid. Not only to do the crime, but to do it in such a way that you are creating evidence of your guilt that seems close to irrefutable.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And this is a serious crime. Threatening to do harm to a judge to influence their decisions is very serious. It's a third-degree felony in Florida up to five years. And then, in addition to that, in Florida, just simply making a written threat to someone is also a second-degree felony punishable by up to 15 years.

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Well, I'm glad it's being taken seriously. Honestly?

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01] Are we done with our cheat sheet?

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00] I think we're done with our cheat sheet, and I apologize to everybody. It's very late. We've been working very hard on this book about the Delphi case. If you've had a chance to look at our feed, you have an idea of some of the things we've been working on. We've been doing lots and lots of interviews, not all of which we have released yet. We're also busy writing the book. The book comes out, I think, in August?

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, the book comes out in August, and it's going to be, hopefully, a comprehensive, respectful work on a really important case. And we're working very hard to make it as good as possible and to talk to as many people for it as possible. It's very important to us. We're putting in a lot of work here, folks. So one thing you can do if you want to support us, and if you're interested in reading it, you can pre-order it. We have some links in our show notes.

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01] I believe it's on bookshop.org. Wait, let me make sure I got that.

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_00] I love the certainty in your voice.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_01] Yes, bookshop.org. They're great. That's independent booksellers. That's a great way to support them. It's also on Amazon. You can buy it through Simon & Schuster's website. But it's going to be, I think, something that's going to be interesting to anyone who cares about this case and probably cares about true crime in general. I think there'll be something of interest. But yeah, we've been informed that pre-orders are very important and we should encourage those at all costs. And so we would implore you to pre-order it if you can. And people keep asking us,

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_01] is there an audio version? Is it going to be an audio book too? And what I've been told by people in the know, by sources, is that there very likely will be. But we have nothing to announce on that front yet. But, you know, it's probably going to happen. But for everyone else, pre-orders?

[00:33:20] [SPEAKER_00] Pre-orders are important. We're very new to this whole process. So a lot of the questions...

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01] That's a nice way of saying we don't know what we're doing.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_00] Yes, I'm the diplomatic one. We're very new to the process. We're learning along with all of you. So a lot of the questions you have, I'm afraid we don't have answers to quite yet. I think after we get the book itself done...

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_01] We'll have more time to strategize.

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_00] And Anya has all sorts of plans.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01] I have schemes. I have clever schemes and plans. And, you know, I think it's going to be really interesting though. And I just, you know, please consider pre-ordering it. And tell your friends. If you have friends who may not be familiar with our nonsense, but are interested in true crime, let them know about it. If you can help spread the word, that means a lot to us. And thank you to everyone who's pre-ordered so far. I can't convey to you how much that means to me.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_01] Like it really just, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. So now that we've done our respectful, tasteful ad, do you want to talk about something else? Like, I don't know, t-shirts?

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_00] T-shirts? I mean, what are these t-shirts you speak of?

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01] They're these shirts that have short sleeves. And they're cotton. And ours are...

[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_00] So are they just plain shirts with no attractive design emblazoned upon them?

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_01] No. No, no, no, no. You've got the wrong idea, Buster.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_00] Do I?

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. These are tasteful black shirts emblazoned in full color with the murder sheet logo and the following words. Murder sheet people.

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00] Wow, Anya, for a shirt like that, I would expect to pay $1,000. Is that how much these shirts are selling for? Are you selling these shirts for $1,000 each?

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01] Yes. Is that what you're doing? See, now you guys know what I have to deal with at home and why we're struggling so much. Kevin's budgeting out thousands of dollars for t-shirts. They... What were we talking about? No, they're... I think they're...

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00] Are they $500? No. These beautiful shirts that could change your life. Change your life. In theory.

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_01] Maybe have some. Anything's possible. For some people.

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_00] You know what? Also, I bet...

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_01] They're $35.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_00] They're $35. I also bet that you could probably wear these shirts when you're reading the book. Or any book.

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, you could actually... I've heard people have claimed that they can do whatever they want when they're in their shirts. People have said this.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00] You enjoy complete freedom of action while you are wearing this shirt.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_01] We're not going to come in and tell you what to do. We're not going to come in and try to dictate your life.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00] Maybe you're not a big reader. Maybe you just want to watch television. You can do that in this shirt.

[00:36:06] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. We're not going to... We're not going to take over your life. So don't worry about that. That's not what we're trying to do.

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_00] Don't want that on. What if you wanted to listen to some great Frank Sinatra tunes? Maybe his... I've Got You Under My Skin from his 1956 album, Songs for Swinging Lovers. Could you do that while you're wearing this shirt?

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_01] Yes, and you don't even need to check in with us first. That's not part of the deal.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_00] It would be appreciated.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, if you want to be respectful, I guess that would be nice.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00] It's not required.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_01] It's not required. It's just encouraged.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_00] But I think... Now, if I wanted to get this shirt, should I just randomly start typing in letters on my computer keyboard and hopefully it takes me somewhere?

[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_01] Well, that's one way to do it. But I think the better way would be to go to murdersheetshop.com and then you can purchase it there. But what are you doing? You're just like staring at me. Also, you were going on and on, but there's no shipping cost, so it's $30 for patrons on our Patreon. So if you want to join Patreon, get a little bold discount.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00] So yeah, you misspoke. It's not $35 for this shirt. It's $30 plus $5 shipping unless you're a Patreon, which is like $5 a month.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_01] A patron.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_00] So it evens out.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_01] It evens out. And it's a great investment because don't you want to tell your friends and family that you have wonderful taste in true crime? It's not what everyone's goal is. It's my goal.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00] Also, you know what? Valentine's Day is coming up.

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_01] Ah.

[00:37:39] [SPEAKER_00] What better gift for your sweetie than you could put this in like a heart-shaped box and give them a lovely t-shirt?

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_01] You could. And I know we've had people who say, oh, my spouse is always like, oh, those are those murder people you're always here. You know, for the spouses, for the spouses in the room who are being subjected to this, there's some ideas. Okay? Birthdays, presents, all sorts of events.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00] Valentine's Day.

[00:38:05] [SPEAKER_01] Valentine's Day, any event you want.

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00] What about a high school graduation?

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. I mean, sure. Anything you want.

[00:38:11] [SPEAKER_00] What about a promotion at work?

[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01] That's also appropriate. I think it's pretty much in the ballpark or it's in your court, basically.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_00] Okay, what if I want to go to a ballpark?

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_01] You can, you can, I would assume that would be allowed at this point. I've not heard otherwise. So, you can do whatever you want for whatever, it's freedom. The shirt is freedom. That's my ad.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_00] Okay, hit the button. Go out on a high note for once. Yes! Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail.com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_01] If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_00] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for The Murder Sheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_01] If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join The Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00] Can we talk a little bit before we go about Quintz, a great new sponsor for us? I think in one of the the ads that we've already done for them, we talked about the compliments I'm getting on my jacket. I know you're a very modest woman, but can we talk about the compliments you're getting on the Quintz products you wear?

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, I've got two of their Mongolian cashmere sweaters. They're a brand that just does this sort of luxurious products, but without the crazy costs really well. They give you Italian leather handbags. They do like European linen sheets. You have a really cool suede jacket and I really like the way I look in my sweaters. I like the way you look in your bomber jacket. It looks super cool.

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_00] You've gotten a lot of compliments when you go out wearing these sweaters.

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_01] I think I have. Yeah.

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_00] And deservedly so.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_01] Also, I'm one of those people my skin is very kind of sensitive, so when it comes to wearing sweaters, sometimes something's too scratchy, it really bothers me. These are so soft. They're just like very delicate and soft and wearing them is lovely because they're super comfortable. It's not one of those things where you're like you buy it and it looks great, but it doesn't feel that great. They look great. They feel great. But yeah, I really love them and you got your cool jacket. I mean, that's a little bit of a,

[00:41:17] [SPEAKER_01] you're the guy who wears the same thing all the time, so this was a bit of a gamble for you, a bit of a risk. You got something a bit different.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_00] I do wash my clothes.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_01] I know you wash your clothes, but I mean,

[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00] you're filthy. You just made me sound awful. So no, I wash my clothes.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_01] But you don't really experiment with fashion that much is what I'm saying. So this is a little bit out of the norm for you, but I think you really like it and it looks good.

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00] Thank you. Great products, incredible prices. Absolutely. Quince.com.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_01] There you go. So you can go to Quince.com slash Msheet and right now they're offering 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. So it's Quince.com slash Msheet. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash M-S-H-E-E-T.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_00] Before we go, we just wanted to say another few words about VIA. This is really a wonderful product. I think it's really helped both of us get a lot better rest.

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_01] VIA is pretty much, I guess you'd say the only lifestyle hemp brand out there. So what does that mean? It means that they're all about crafting different products to elicit different moods. Kevin and I really like their non-THC CBD products. Specifically, Zen really helps me fall asleep. Some Zen can really just kind of help me get more into that state where I can relax and fall asleep pretty easily. And they've been such a wonderful support to us. They're a long-time sponsor. We really love working with them and they really

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_01] make this show possible. I'm going to say this, you may not realize this, but when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us and it kind of makes it possible for us to do this show. So if you or one of your loved ones is interested in trying some of this stuff, you're going to get a great deal. It's very high quality, high value.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_00] Anya, if I wanted to get this discount you speak of, what do I do?

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_01] Okay, if you're 21 and older, head to viahemp.com and use the code MSHEET to receive 15% off. And if you're new to Via, get a free gift of your choice. That's V-I-I-A hemp.com and use code MSHEET at checkout.

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_00] Spell the code.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_01] M-S-H-E-E-T. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you, hey, where did you hear about us? Say the murder sheet because then it lets them know that our ads are effective and it really helps us out.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00] Before we wrap up this episode, can we take just a moment to say a few more words about our great new sponsor, Acorns?

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, thanks so much to Acorns. Remember, when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us and our sponsors make it possible for us to do this job. So we really appreciate them.

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_00] We love our sponsors.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01] Absolutely. Acorns is a terrific investing app. It's the perfect thing for somebody who wants to get started with their personal finance journey. That can seem daunting. It is daunting. I'm so not financially minded. For me, it's always really hard to get started with something like this where you're like, what am I doing? But Acorns sort of takes the guesswork out of that. It gets you started and it will essentially help you take control of your financial future. you can get set up pretty quickly

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01] and it allows you to start automatically saving and investing. That money can help you, your kids, if you have a family, your retirement, and you don't need to be rich. You don't need to be an expert to do this. It's very simple and you can start with only $5 or whatever change you have. It's not like you need to put in some massive payment. So it is a, it's a great fit for people who are starting out but they want to take the next step and improve themselves financially and make their money work for them more.

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_01] So if you're interested, head to acorns.com slash msheet or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non-client endorsement, compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns, tier one compensation provided, investing involved risk, Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor, view important disclosures at acorns.com slash msheet.