The JFK Assassination: A Conversation with Eric Ulis On the Bullet That Missed

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[00:01:36] Content warning, this episode contains discussion of murder and violence.

[00:01:41] The assassination of President John F. Kennedy is in many ways

[00:01:45] a murder case that's all about the big and the small.

[00:01:49] In terms of impact, the assassination was huge.

[00:01:52] A seismic event.

[00:01:54] The tragic murder of a beloved young president continues to haunt us to this day.

[00:01:59] And of course, Lee Harvey Oswald's bullets also took away the life of the father of two small children

[00:02:06] and a husband who was by some accounts very much reconciling with his wife,

[00:02:10] First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy.

[00:02:12] This was a personal tragedy for his family as well as a moment of lost innocence

[00:02:17] for the entire United States.

[00:02:19] The assassination led to an atmosphere of distrust.

[00:02:23] Numerous conspiracy theories circulate about our democracy being thwarted,

[00:02:28] about our nation being attacked by foreign enemies with impunity,

[00:02:33] or even worse, betrayed from within.

[00:02:36] Bad actors continue to take advantage of that despair.

[00:02:40] Why strive for change and improvements if shadowy all-powerful actors

[00:02:45] are just going to cut down anyone who represents that change?

[00:02:49] Why vote? Why care?

[00:02:51] Those are all the major themes.

[00:02:54] Then there's the small stuff.

[00:02:56] And those who study the JFK assassination definitely sweat the small stuff.

[00:03:01] This case is all about the little details and discrepancies.

[00:03:05] The forensic evidence.

[00:03:07] Oswald's exact movements that day,

[00:03:09] and in the days leading up to the moment he took aim from his sniper's nest.

[00:03:14] The witness accounts.

[00:03:15] What they heard. What they saw.

[00:03:17] What they concluded later on after the chaos stopped.

[00:03:21] The various investigations, the solid ones and the sloppy ones as well.

[00:03:26] The small bits of evidence that could tell us everything

[00:03:30] if only we could piece it all together.

[00:03:33] One point of debate about the JFK assassination has to do with the bullets.

[00:03:38] It's commonly accepted that Oswald took three shots.

[00:03:42] You hit President Kennedy. One missed.

[00:03:45] But what was the order of those shots? Which one didn't hit its target?

[00:03:49] Well, we have a guest on this episode who will be sharing his theory about the shots.

[00:03:54] We previously had Eric Eulisk on to talk about the D.B. Cooper skyjacking.

[00:03:59] He's an expert on that case as well as on the Gardner Museum heist and other mysteries.

[00:04:05] Also we can add the shots in the JFK assassination to his list of subjects of expertise.

[00:04:10] In our previous episode, Eric mentioned that he had a thought on the bullets in the JFK case.

[00:04:16] So we were eager to have him back on to chat about that.

[00:04:19] In this episode, Eric will be referencing the film shot by Abraham Zapruder,

[00:04:24] commonly known as the Zapruder film.

[00:04:26] If you want to follow along, we'll include a link to the film that's up on YouTube.

[00:04:31] My name is Ania Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:04:34] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[00:04:36] And this is The Murder Sheet.

[00:04:38] We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases.

[00:04:45] We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:04:47] And this is the JFK assassination, a conversation with Eric Eulis on the bullet that missed.

[00:05:08] The Murder Sheet

[00:05:39] I guess for the purposes of this conversation, we're going to presuppose Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone

[00:05:47] fires three shots at the murder case.

[00:05:50] One of them hits President Kennedy in the neck or shoulder and then passes through him and injures Governor Conway.

[00:05:58] The other bullet strikes President Kennedy in the head killing him and then a third shot misses.

[00:06:06] And so to start off with, how do we know that there was a missed shot?

[00:06:12] Well, there were three bullet casings that were found on the sixth floor of the schoolbook depository at the Sniper's Nest.

[00:06:20] Also the overwhelming majority of witnesses in D.O. Lee Plaza heard three shots.

[00:06:28] And of course, there were two bullets that were recovered.

[00:06:31] So there is a missing bullet. There is a missing shot.

[00:06:35] So the evidence is overwhelming that there were three shots taken out to President that day.

[00:06:41] The overwhelming majority of ear witnesses as well as eye witnesses in D.O. Lee Plaza attest to the time between the first two shots being a little bit greater than the time being between shot two and shot three, which is critically important as well.

[00:07:00] Now obviously in most homicides, the murder is not filmed.

[00:07:04] And so we don't get an opportunity to say, oh, this shot missed or this shot didn't miss.

[00:07:10] But in this case it was filmed by Abraham Zapruder of course.

[00:07:14] And there was no trial. So we're left trying to get insights into Oswald's mind and his possible motives.

[00:07:23] And it's very possible that trying to figure out which shot missed could help us do that.

[00:07:31] A lot of people have argued over the years that it was the first shot that missed. What's your reaction or response to that?

[00:07:39] Yes, and it's a little interesting and a little perplexing to me.

[00:07:43] To be clear, the Warren Commission never settled the matter which of the three shots missed.

[00:07:49] They obviously determined that there were three shots but they weren't certain which of the three shots missed.

[00:07:56] Now in 1979 there was a House Select Committee on Assassinations and the House Select Committee on Assassinations

[00:08:03] determined that it was the first shot that missed.

[00:08:06] Ironically the shot where the limousine would have been the closest to Lee Arby Oswald and the sniper's nest.

[00:08:14] Now for a number of reasons I haven't been quite certain that that was the case.

[00:08:20] So that's what ultimately led me into digging into this quite deeply to try to determine which one of those three shots actually missed.

[00:08:28] Was it indeed the first shot or is it perhaps the second or the third shot?

[00:08:33] And ultimately I came to the conclusion and I think it's overwhelming.

[00:08:38] The thing is overwhelming evidence that points to the fact that it was the third shot that missed.

[00:08:43] Now on the surface one may say, well, what does it really matter which shot missed?

[00:08:47] But it actually is critically important and I think it rewrites our understanding of history.

[00:08:52] We can get into that in a minute here but let's just start with the fact that it's clear to me that it was the third shot that missed.

[00:09:00] I do want to ask about that first shot.

[00:09:03] I've always, when you look in books and stuff people try to argue for that and there is so-called evidence like the running girl Rosemary Willis.

[00:09:13] This is a person seen in the background of the Zipruder film and she turns and looks back at the Texas school book depository where Oswald was firing the shots from at a certain time.

[00:09:24] And people argue where that must be because he'd fired the first shot.

[00:09:29] Why don't you find that credible? I'm just curious.

[00:09:32] Well, first of all she was quite young and the other thing is that if you look at what happened,

[00:09:39] I mean by the time she stopped and really kind of turned around, the limousine was well in front of her.

[00:09:45] But more importantly none of the secret service agents responded at that time.

[00:09:51] So that clearly indicates to me that for whatever reason she stops because the limousine is too far ahead,

[00:09:58] she's losing ground and then just kind of looks to the right that for whatever reason that took place this young girl,

[00:10:05] it had absolutely nothing to hearing the shot being fired because again no one else makes that move.

[00:10:12] That's a great point to believe that you'd have to believe this child is a better observer

[00:10:17] and knows more about what gunshots sound like than trans secret service agents.

[00:10:21] Please lay out your case for a missed third shot.

[00:10:24] The first thing that's important to remember is that there were a number of people in Dealey Plaza that heard the shots.

[00:10:33] And again, as I noted earlier there were the overwhelming majority of the people said that there were three shots that were fired.

[00:10:40] It's also critically important to note that the overwhelming majority said that there was a greater distance between shot one and shot two than between shot two and shot three.

[00:10:52] So if we were to accept the prevailing wisdom that it was the first shot that missed at best,

[00:11:02] at best you're looking at the distance between shot one and shot two actually being the same amount of time as between shot two and shot three.

[00:11:12] In fact more often than not if this is a practical matter there would actually be a smaller time frame in between there

[00:11:19] because we know essentially the time distance between shot two and shot three.

[00:11:25] So as far as conventional wisdom is concerned, so I don't want to get this confused with shot one, shot two, shot three.

[00:11:32] So let me just kind of walk us through it here and I know this is a little bit complicated especially not looking at this is a broader film in real time here.

[00:11:40] So what ends up happening here is we have a number of witnesses that were actually on Elm Street that not only heard the shots but actually saw the president get hit and that's critically important.

[00:11:56] And it is virtually unanimous that the people that actually heard and saw the president get shot that they say that the first shot that they heard ultimately led to the president either standing up or adjusting himself forward

[00:12:15] or grabbing for his neck. There's various descriptions of that nature in its universal that these people said it was the first shot that caused that initial reaction from the president.

[00:12:28] And this would have been at the time when the president was shot essentially hit in the back, the bullet would have hit his spine and then would have come out essentially near his throat and the bullet would have entered

[00:12:42] John Connolly and done some damage in Governor Connolly as well the so-called magic bullet. And so that's virtually universal there.

[00:12:53] Then with respect to the follow up shot, the same thing many of the witnesses that actually I would say all of the witnesses that saw the assassination took place actually proceeded to watch the president and watch the limousine after that first

[00:13:11] shot occurred and that first reaction took place on behalf of the president or on the part of the president. And they attest to the fact that the next shot was the shot that hit the president in the head and obviously killed the president.

[00:13:25] Now this was at the very famous Zapruder frame 313 when the president took the headshot. And then you have some of the witnesses that saw the assassination that say they didn't hear any additional shots at all.

[00:13:40] In other words, they only heard two shots. And then you have others that say I heard a third shot and the third shot came after the headshot, after the kill shot.

[00:13:52] So if you look at individually what the witnesses said, and you take a look at the Zapruder film and also another film which was the Orville Nix film which was shot on the opposite side of the Zapruder but also filmed the assassination.

[00:14:07] There are a number of key things that indicate that that's exactly what happened, that it was the first shot that hit the president in the back. The second shot that hit him in the head and there was a missed third shot.

[00:14:20] I think the critical witness here though is actually Governor Conley. And Governor Conley famously for decades said that he believed that the president was hit with the first shot, then the governor then that he was hit with the second shot and then it was the third shot that hit the president in the head and killed the president.

[00:14:45] And Conley was on the record for saying that for many, many years. He insisted that the magic bullet wasn't a magic bullet at all, that he didn't get hit with that first shot.

[00:14:56] But it's also critically important to note that Governor Conley did not see the president get shot. He just heard what the activity. He didn't actually see it.

[00:15:08] But importantly, if you listen to precisely what Governor Conley says with respect to the unfolding of events that day and you couple that with a Zapruder film, you can actually see precisely what happened that day.

[00:15:28] And this is what happened and this is exactly what ties in with what Governor Conley's recollections were that day.

[00:15:37] So specifically the limousine is traveling up Houston and makes a sharp left hand turn on the Elm Street.

[00:15:44] And right after making that left hand turn on the Elm Street, just a matter of seconds later, that's when that first shot is taken by Lee Harvey Oswald and it hits the president in the back and it comes out the neck and goes into Governor Conley.

[00:16:01] Now what the governor says is that he says that he was, you know, obviously as he's sitting in front of the president, he says he recognizes the first shot. He hears the first shot and then it's a he recognizes that as a rifle shot.

[00:16:17] And Governor Conley says that at that point he turns around to the right, almost completely around to look behind him because that's where the shot came from.

[00:16:28] And also to look at the president to see the president. He says that he never saw the president. So I guess he just didn't turn far enough around to see the president.

[00:16:39] And then the governor says that so then he starts to turn his head back around counterclockwise basically because he was going to turn around and look over his left shoulder.

[00:16:50] And he says just about at the time he was facing forward, he said that's when he got shot and he says that he didn't hear the shot, but he felt the shot and he describes it as basically a punch in the center of his back.

[00:17:09] And he says the force was so great that it actually thrust him forward in the chair.

[00:17:16] Again, he didn't hear the shot, but he says that's when he that's the governor says that's when I got shot on that on the second shot after the first noise.

[00:17:26] And he said that when he's thrust forward, he looks down and he sees he has blood on his chest. He has blood on his person.

[00:17:34] And he says it's at that point that his wife who was sitting directly to his left pulls him down to the left.

[00:17:42] He actually she actually pulls the governor into her lap.

[00:17:46] And he says that as he's laying down on her lap and he says he's conscious and everything else, that's when he hears the third and final shot.

[00:17:56] But in his mind is the second shot because again, he only heard two shots, but he hears that that final shot.

[00:18:03] Now, if you look very closely at the Zapruder film, indeed what you see happen is you see the presidential limousine go behind a metal sign momentarily.

[00:18:15] And it's at that point when the president is behind the metal sign that he actually gets shot.

[00:18:21] That first shot takes place and he gets hit in the back. It's the so-called magic bullet shot.

[00:18:27] And this happens at approximately Zapruder frame 215.

[00:18:32] Then the limousine emerges from behind the metal sign and you can see the president kind of reaching up in the thorn burn position because he had spinal injury from that shot.

[00:18:46] And sure enough, you see the governor a second or so later, turn his head to the right to look behind him in the direction the shot came from and in the direction of the president just as he recalls happening.

[00:19:01] And he looks back at the president momentarily and then the governor turns back around and sure enough, just as he's facing forward, that's precisely when the president gets shot in the head.

[00:19:17] That's Zapruder frame 313 where he gets shot in the head.

[00:19:21] But what's interesting is if you look very carefully at that when the president is shot in the head, you'll notice that the president flails backwards and sure enough, the governor actually is pushed forward.

[00:19:37] So what happens there is when the president is shot in the head and he flails back, he actually kicks the chair that Governor Connolly is sitting on, the jump seat that Governor Connolly is sitting on right in front of the governor.

[00:19:54] So the governor is kicked in the back by the president and sure enough, the governor is thrust forward from the force of that kick.

[00:20:04] And again, remember this is in the governor's mind. He's thinking I just got shot that punch in the back was me getting shot.

[00:20:13] He doesn't realize that the punch in the back is not from a bullet, but it's actually from the president kicking the back of his chair from being hit in the head.

[00:20:24] And sure enough, if you watch instantaneously right after he's thrust forward, his wife pulls him down the governor down to the left into her lap just as the governor recalls.

[00:20:37] And that is when the third shot would have taken place. That's when he heard that final shot, which obviously would have taken place after the president was dead and leading over to his left.

[00:20:51] The governor has also been shot leading over to his left and the governor's wife, Nellie, is on is essentially covering her husband up.

[00:21:00] So I think it's very clear when you listen to the governor and you look at the Zaprotor film, it's very clear to see what's happening and it's very clear to understand what transpired.

[00:21:12] In the governor's mind, he's hearing things and he's associating them with certain events. But his timing is off because he isn't actually seeing what is happening here.

[00:21:23] He doesn't realize that's that shot 313 that kills the president that causes the president to kick him in the back.

[00:21:30] That that that's actually what's taking place. It has nothing to do with with him being shot.

[00:21:36] That's very compelling. It does certainly seem to fit with the governor's testimony.

[00:21:42] An obvious question if Lee Harvey Oswald has just fired a bullet and seeing John F. Kennedy suffer a massive obviously fatal head wound.

[00:21:53] Why does he then fire a bullet?

[00:21:56] Well, that's the $64,000 question. And I think the answer is quite obvious because if you look at when that third shot would have taken place, which was approximately the Bruder frame 382.

[00:22:10] So it's about 3.7 seconds after the kill shot after the headshot.

[00:22:16] It said that moment where the president is down dead laying on his side. The governor's been shot. He's laying down on his side.

[00:22:24] The governor's wife is laying down on her side on top of the governor. There is only one person visible to target.

[00:22:32] And that happens to be Jackie Kennedy who it just so happens that that moment is actually climbing on the trunk of the car in utter shock,

[00:22:42] climbing on the back trunk of the car and is obviously in a very high profile position.

[00:22:48] So I think it's absolutely clear that when a third shot was taken, the only person that could have been targeted, the only person really that one could have seen was Jackie Kennedy.

[00:23:02] And I think that's also important when you look at the trajectory of things because if it's that third shot that missed,

[00:23:11] let's say he takes a hasty third shot at Jackie as the car is at its furthest distance and speeding up and starting to make a right hand turn down Elm Street and head under the triple underpass,

[00:23:23] arguably that's the most difficult shot. So it stands to reason that would have been the shot that missed.

[00:23:29] But if you look at the trajectory of that shot from Lee Harvey Oswald from the sixth floor depository,

[00:23:36] you can see that it would have missed Jackie and it would have ricocheted off of the road near a manhole cover.

[00:23:44] And the bullet would have continued in a straight line and actually would have hit the curb on Main Street one street over,

[00:23:52] which is exactly what happened there. The bullet actually one of the bullets hit that curb and actually chipped the piece of concrete and a piece of that concrete actually flew up

[00:24:02] into the face of James Tegg exactly correct. He's the only other person that experienced any kind of wound that day from the shooting and you can see there it's a clear straight shot.

[00:24:13] So that's exactly what happened. And it's also critically important to note that we actually have an eyewitness to this.

[00:24:21] There was a gentleman named Roy Skelton who was actually standing on top of the triple overpass.

[00:24:27] He had kind of a bird's eye view of the limousine approaching him when the events unfolded.

[00:24:33] And Roy talks about hearing the first shot and then seeing this hearing the second shot sing the president get his head getting blown off basically.

[00:24:43] And then he said there was a shot after that after the kill shot and he said he not only heard the shot but he saw hit the street because he said it kicked up some gravel or kicked up some dust

[00:24:56] to the front and left of the presidential limousine as it's driving down Elm Street driving toward Roy Skelton at this point.

[00:25:05] So in the case of Mr. Skelton he actually heard the shot after the president was killed but he also saw the shot as well.

[00:25:13] So that is perfectly consistent with the forensics, the trajectory of a shot missing,

[00:25:19] ricocheting off the street heading into a straight line and ultimately hitting the white curb 50 or 60 feet away on Main Street.

[00:25:28] They're chipping the concrete would end up hitting James Teg in the chief.

[00:25:32] So I think that that is precisely what happened.

[00:25:35] The reason this is important, the reason this is important is because it does appear that as bad as that day was the assassination of the president.

[00:25:45] It does appear that Jackie Kennedy was also a target and she as well could have also been killed but she managed to escape with her life.

[00:25:55] So obviously the president was killed, Jackie managed to escape with her life.

[00:26:00] And I think that's important for a couple of reasons because not only does a rewriter understanding would actually took place that day, November 22nd 1963.

[00:26:10] But it also I think provides a very compelling piece of evidence to indicates that this was indeed just a lone gunman crazy man,

[00:26:20] Lee Harvey Oswald, not working on behalf of the mafia or the coup pins or the Soviet Union, because none of these people are interested in killing the first lady.

[00:26:31] It would have been interested perhaps in killing the president but certainly not the first lady.

[00:26:37] So I think it really speaks to the fact that Lee Harvey Oswald was was a one man wrecking crew and he was just out to do as much damage as he could possibly do and leave his mark if you will.

[00:26:49] On the world, which unfortunately he did.

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[00:29:40] The man who was injured by the flying cement, was he seriously hurt or was he okay?

[00:29:46] No, it was just a small little nick on his cheek. In fact, he didn't even realize that he had been hit.

[00:29:53] Police officer noted that he had a little bit of blood on his cheek and it's at that point that he recalled,

[00:29:58] oh yes, I remember my face kind of stinging. There was a stinging sensation.

[00:30:03] So he quickly put together that that's what happened there.

[00:30:08] The authorities obviously went back and looked at the curb and found the curb,

[00:30:13] found the curb where the bullet actually hit that were chipped to cement.

[00:30:19] And that piece of the curb was actually sawed off out of the street and sent in and analyzed.

[00:30:25] And there was lead and antimony that was found on the smear, the bullet smear on the curb there.

[00:30:32] Importantly, there was no copper found there. This was a full metal jacket bullet.

[00:30:39] And obviously what had happened is the bullet had hit the had ricocheted, had hit the street down the street.

[00:30:45] Apparently it vaporized the copper jacket and then the core of the bullet proceeded forward,

[00:30:52] ultimately hitting the curb, leaving evidence, leaving physical evidence on the curb.

[00:30:58] And at the same time chipping a piece of the concrete which hit Mr. Tague in the face.

[00:31:03] Would the bullet have been like destroyed in that process?

[00:31:07] That's the prevailing wisdom and I think that that's probably accurate that essentially the bullet was vaporized at that point.

[00:31:14] Therefore nothing was ever found with respect to the bullets.

[00:31:17] Now again, this was 1963. This type of thing happened in 2024.

[00:31:22] I suspect that they have equipment that could have combed over Dealey Plaza in that area

[00:31:27] and would have found traces of lead and antimony and some copper as well.

[00:31:34] But again, 1964, no such luck as far as that goes.

[00:31:38] That makes sense.

[00:31:40] And it's always been a puzzle because two of his shots hit inside the car and the third one not only misses,

[00:31:50] it really, really misses.

[00:31:52] And so it's always been a source of confusion.

[00:31:55] How could he suddenly miss it so badly?

[00:31:58] And your theory would seem to offer pretty compelling answer to that question.

[00:32:02] Well, the truth of the matter is that he almost missed the president.

[00:32:06] I mean, if the bullet would have been up and to the right an inch or two, he would have actually missed the president.

[00:32:12] He just happened to hit that upper right hand quadrant of the president's head.

[00:32:16] And then of course by that time, you know, the limousine starts speeding up and going around the curve,

[00:32:22] you know, 3.7 seconds later, approximately is a Pruder frame 282.

[00:32:26] He takes that final shot at Jackie.

[00:32:29] Obviously we don't know how close or how badly he missed Jackie, but he clearly did miss her.

[00:32:35] But it may have been just a matter of a few inches there as well.

[00:32:39] You know, obviously in the case of the president, the one or two inches unfortunately didn't take place and the president was hit.

[00:32:46] And then in the case of Jackie, he may have been the same one or two inches, but in that case was one or two inches off target and she was saved just by fate.

[00:32:55] And I think the distance and everything definitely plays a part.

[00:32:58] Plus it was a little hasty because the timing between the first two shots, one and two was 5.35 seconds and in 3.7 seconds later was the second shot.

[00:33:09] And again, that's perfectly consistent with the ear witness testimony about the order of those shots.

[00:33:16] That's one of the very big problems that you have or people have trying to explain away the whole first shot missing theory.

[00:33:25] The timing of the shots doesn't line up with what the witnesses saw.

[00:33:29] Moreover, the problem with that is if it was the first shot that missed, you know, people would have argued that would have had to have hit the street light post, the metal post and ricocheted a pretty steep angle,

[00:33:42] then hit the curb, then hit Mr. Tague and everything else, which is a little bit hard to swallow given the distances and the angles and so forth.

[00:33:51] And moreover, they didn't find any such marks in that street lamp post.

[00:33:57] There weren't any indentations or anything of that nature that indicates a bullet had hit it and ricocheted off.

[00:34:04] So I just don't, it just doesn't pass the smell test on really any level.

[00:34:09] On the other hand, the idea of the third shot missing and if you look again that trajectory of that missed shot, it's a straight clean line to that curb that Mr. Tague was standing near

[00:34:20] that was chipped.

[00:34:23] I guess another thing I'd have to ask is that of course there was an officer on a motorbike.

[00:34:31] He hears the sounds of the gunshots from the Texas School Book Depository, tosses his bike to the ground, runs inside the building and he encounters Oswald on the second floor.

[00:34:44] If there was a third shot later than we think there was, would Oswald still have had time to get down from the sixth floor to the second floor in time to encounter this police officer?

[00:34:58] Yes, absolutely. Because again, you're talking just a matter of 3.7 seconds there and the Warren Commission actually timed this thing out.

[00:35:08] They have a pretty good idea of the path that Oswald took once that final shot was taken.

[00:35:14] And indeed, the timing does work out where he could have Oswald put it ended up in the lunch room there on the second floor just as the police officer was entering the second floor.

[00:35:25] And with one of, I think it was Oswald's supervisor, Von Mammus Staking, who was essentially vouched for Oswald saying, oh yeah, he works here.

[00:35:34] And that's how Oswald slipped through the noose there.

[00:35:37] It's also very important for people to remember those who think that Oswald was just set up, he wasn't involved with this thing at all.

[00:35:45] It's also important to remember that he took a shot at General Walker several months before and missed.

[00:35:52] And we know this with certainty because his wife told the authorities that after the assassination, that that's actually what took place.

[00:36:00] Moreover, it was a fleeing Oswald who killed Officer J.D. Tippett several minutes after the president was shot.

[00:36:10] And moreover, it was when Oswald was captured in the Texas Theater, he attempted to shoot the police officer in the theater as well.

[00:36:20] It was by the grace of God that the police officer grabbed Oswald's handgun in the firing pin when it was thrust forward after Oswald pulled the trigger.

[00:36:31] The firing pin hit the webbing of the police officer's finger, which prevented the bullet from firing.

[00:36:37] So I mean, Oswald not only attempted to kill General Walker months earlier, but clearly killed Officer Tippett minutes after the president was shot

[00:36:47] and attempted to kill another police officer in the Texas Theater.

[00:36:51] I mean, none of these things, an innocent man doesn't act that way.

[00:36:55] An innocent person doesn't act that way.

[00:36:57] Not to mention all the other forensics with respect to the firearm and everything else.

[00:37:04] So it's absolutely clear that that's precisely what happened.

[00:37:08] And obviously Oswald's history defecting to the Soviet Union, then undefecting from the Soviet Union, then trying to redefect the Soviet Union, then trying to get to Cuba.

[00:37:19] I mean, this guy was just a hot mess.

[00:37:22] Basically my money was just sort of that consummate loser.

[00:37:26] He just couldn't find his footing in society.

[00:37:29] Instead of taking personal responsibility, it was always someone else's fault, you know, why he was not succeeding or what have you.

[00:37:37] And you know, for whatever reason this guy just decided, you know, I'm going to leave my mark on this world by taking out the president.

[00:37:46] He had failed again with General Walker months earlier.

[00:37:49] And as we noted, he was unfortunately successful, but it does appear that he also wanted to take out Jackie as well.

[00:37:56] And in that respect, he was unsuccessful.

[00:37:59] Yeah, certainly continues with the grand tradition of assassins of American presidents being complete losers in life.

[00:38:07] That's correct. That's actually that's absolutely correct.

[00:38:10] That's right. Invariably, there's something demented going on in their mind and even in the case of, you know, the attempt of assassination of President Ray and President Ford, same sort of thing.

[00:38:21] You've got people that are just unstable.

[00:38:23] You know, it's not grand sophisticated conspiracy stuff here.

[00:38:28] You know, some complicated plan and you know, it was just brilliant.

[00:38:33] It was just, you know, I don't want to say dumb luck. That's the word to use.

[00:38:38] But it was just, you know, fate was just such that everything just went Lee Harvey Oswald's way.

[00:38:45] Everything from procuring the job by accident at the Texas School Book Depository, not too long before the president visited town.

[00:38:54] The unbelievable fact that the motorcade just happened to drive by the Texas School Book Depository when Oswald was at work there.

[00:39:03] Even the fact that minutes before the president drove by and was assassinated, one of the workers who was in the building there actually went up to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.

[00:39:14] Nate, it's lunch. He had a soda and he had some fried chicken and actually left the materials there.

[00:39:22] And then actually it didn't see anything or anybody on the sixth floor, but obviously Lee Harvey Oswald was actually there at that point.

[00:39:29] But you know, one has to wonder, you know, if he had decided, if this person had decided to just stay on the sixth floor and watch the president drive by what Oswald have actually attempted to kill the president,

[00:39:42] you know, knowing that he has a coworker literally 20 feet to the right on the other side of some boxes.

[00:39:47] But as it worked out, you know, the gentleman finishes lunch and actually went down to the fifth floor and joined a couple of other guys down there.

[00:39:55] By the way, all of whom actually heard Lee Harvey Oswald taking the shots from the floor above directly above them,

[00:40:03] even to the degree where they could hear the cartridges being ejected from the rifle and hitting the floor, the wood floor directly above them.

[00:40:11] So it is very, very compelling evidence that indicates that Lee Harvey Oswald took three shots and only three shots.

[00:40:20] And again, there was that third and final shot that Lee Harvey Oswald took that missed everybody and everything.

[00:40:26] Is there anything we didn't ask about that you'd like to cover about your theory?

[00:40:30] I think that that about covers it. Again, I think it is worth considering why this is important.

[00:40:38] And it's important for a few reasons. First of all, it sets the record straight of what actually happened.

[00:40:45] This was a significant historical event needless to say.

[00:40:48] And it's in our best interest to understand precisely what happened, to understand the accurate series of events that took place on that day,

[00:40:58] not the flawed series of events as put forward by the House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1979 specifically.

[00:41:07] And again, when you consider further the significance or the ramifications of the third shot missing versus the first shot,

[00:41:15] it does speak to the fact that he was apparently trying to kill the first lady as well.

[00:41:20] And additionally, it does speak to the fact that he was just he was acting on his own.

[00:41:26] It wasn't at the behest of some sophisticated organization like the mob, like the Soviets, like the Cubans or any such organization or group like that.

[00:41:36] This was just one man, one man out on a mission to satisfy or exercise his demons.

[00:41:43] And like I said before, unfortunately, he was successful. That said, apparently he was only half successful.

[00:41:51] He only accomplished half of his mission that day.

[00:41:53] It's interesting because one of the other really compelling pieces on camera here was there was a guy named Emmett Hudson.

[00:42:01] There's a parking lot behind the grassy knoll.

[00:42:04] And between the parking lot on the grassy knoll behind the grassy knoll and Elm Street, there's a series of stairs.

[00:42:11] There's a sidewalk and stairs that walk down.

[00:42:13] And about halfway down, there was a gentleman named Emmett Hudson with a couple other men.

[00:42:20] And Mr. Hudson as well says he heard the first shot, saw the president respond.

[00:42:26] Then he saw the president get hit in the head and obviously killed.

[00:42:30] And he said it was upon hearing when the president got hit in the head that one of the people that was there with him,

[00:42:37] there's two other people said, duck somebody's shooting.

[00:42:41] And he says it's at that point that you know that the two guys started to run and he said he actually dove toward the ground.

[00:42:49] And he said as he was diving to the ground, he heard a third shot, a final shot, which was obviously after the headshot.

[00:42:58] But this is also backed up by the Knicks film, the one that was filmed from across the street.

[00:43:04] Because if you look at the Knicks film from across the street, you see the three guys standing there and you see when the headshot takes place,

[00:43:12] they all of a sudden died for the ground to start running just as you recall happening.

[00:43:18] So again, there's things like that.

[00:43:21] There's actual photographic evidence that backs up what these people are saying, which clearly shows that it was that third shot that missed.

[00:43:30] I'm shocked that nobody's figured this out.

[00:43:33] I mean, honestly, I'm just amazed that nobody's actually figured this out and taken the time to look at this and put it together

[00:43:41] and understand the significance of all this.

[00:43:44] It's just I don't know how to explain that.

[00:43:47] I'm just really amazed that.

[00:43:49] Third shot really says more about Oswald and his mind than a missed first shot or what have you.

[00:43:56] It's really has really deep implications.

[00:44:00] If I had to put a finger on it, I think that the reason why that nobody's really questioned is because of the House Select Committee in 79,

[00:44:07] what they said that people just accepted it as gospel.

[00:44:10] But it was also the House Select Committee that we've lied upon the false acoustics to say there was the four shots,

[00:44:17] and later completely discredited.

[00:44:20] That is insane. That is insanely sloppy.

[00:44:23] It's like, how do you put the genie back in the bottle on that?

[00:44:26] That's the problem. But that's the truth. That's what happened.

[00:44:29] And I think it's on tape. It's on tape.

[00:44:32] It's hard to speak, especially when you look at Governor Connolly and listen to what he said.

[00:44:37] All of a sudden, it's like, oh, I see exactly what's going on.

[00:44:40] Governor is exactly right in terms of his recollections.

[00:44:44] The way he's kind of picturing it in his mind, he didn't actually see the president get it.

[00:44:49] That's where the error comes in.

[00:44:51] And of course, the governor didn't realize he had been shot with that first shot.

[00:44:56] He just didn't register, didn't realize it, which is not uncommon as well.

[00:45:00] People get shot and have no idea they've been shot.

[00:45:03] They realize it five, 10 seconds later.

[00:45:06] A dude, adrenaline pumping? I mean, it makes sense.

[00:45:09] And normally it isn't studied because normally homicides aren't recorded on film.

[00:45:13] That's very true.

[00:45:14] That's right.

[00:45:15] You're not studying people's reactions.

[00:45:17] No.

[00:45:18] That's right.

[00:45:19] That's right.

[00:45:20] Really well said.

[00:45:21] Thank you so much, Eric, for taking the time to share your theory with us.

[00:45:24] We really appreciate it.

[00:45:25] It was fascinating.

[00:45:26] Yeah.

[00:45:27] We'd like to say that Eric is such a great guest and we so appreciate him coming back on our show.

[00:45:32] Check in on everything he's looking into by visiting his website at ericulis.com.

[00:45:38] That's E-R-I-C-U-L-I-S dot com.

[00:45:44] Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet.

[00:45:47] If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheetatgmail.com.

[00:45:56] If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[00:46:04] If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com.

[00:46:14] If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com.

[00:46:25] We very much appreciate any support.

[00:46:28] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet,

[00:46:33] and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

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