The Murder of Anita Byington: An Interview with Her Cousin Kristina Byington

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[00:01:36] Content warning. This episode contains discussion of violence and murder.

[00:01:43] Anita Byington should have been able to enjoy a night out. It was a Saturday in summer.

[00:01:49] She was a vibrant, beautiful young woman.

[00:01:52] She was only 21 and she had a bright future ahead.

[00:01:55] A student at Southwest Texas State University, Anita was majoring in elementary education.

[00:02:02] In August of 1991, she traveled from San Marcos to Austin, Texas to visit some friends and relative.

[00:02:09] She stayed with them in a residence on Bluff Springs Road in South Austin.

[00:02:13] It was just supposed to be a weekend trip, but it was one that Anita would never return from.

[00:02:19] On August 10th, 1991, Anita and two of her friends hit up the bars and nightclubs on 6th Street.

[00:02:27] This is Austin's entertainment district.

[00:02:30] It's got music, bars, clubs and stores.

[00:02:33] Anita and her friends weren't alone as they adventured around this busy strip.

[00:02:38] Three acquaintances of the group, guys who worked at the state capitol for the Senate's Sergeant at Arms, tagged along.

[00:02:45] One of them was a man named Kevin Harris.

[00:02:48] When the fun died down, the group arranged to head out.

[00:02:51] The friends and acquaintances piled into a vehicle, except for Anita and Harris.

[00:02:57] They planned to ride behind in Anita's 1989 brown Honda.

[00:03:02] Harris said he needed to ride to his truck parked near an apartment on RM 2222.

[00:03:08] But when the other car arrived at his destination, Anita's friends found themselves waiting.

[00:03:15] And waiting.

[00:03:17] No headlights emerged in the darkness.

[00:03:20] Anita never showed back up.

[00:03:23] The following morning at 630 a.m., a person living at the Spring Creek Apartments at 6407 Springdale Road went outside.

[00:03:33] That witness saw something horrible.

[00:03:36] Anita's body lying in the grass behind building four in the complex.

[00:03:41] She was fully clothed and beaten, possibly with a concrete rain diverter.

[00:03:46] She died of severe head trauma.

[00:03:49] The crime scene photos are brutal, with the extensive bruising across her body showing up clearly, even in the grainy black and white images.

[00:03:58] Her car was found later that day at 1157 Salina Street at an entirely different apartment complex.

[00:04:05] Geographically speaking, the Spring Creek Apartments are about a 20 minute drive from the 6th Street area.

[00:04:12] The Spring Creek Apartments in the Salina Street location are about 13 minutes apart.

[00:04:17] And the Salina Street location in the 6th Street area are about a 10 minute drive.

[00:04:23] As police began to investigate, Anita's family was left devastated.

[00:04:28] She was the only child of Sarah and Alfredo, or Al, Byington.

[00:04:33] They adored Anita and were left reeling after her death.

[00:04:37] All they could hope for were some answers on who had taken their daughter.

[00:04:41] Other family members, like Christina Byington, Anita's first cousin, with whom she was extremely close, almost like sisters, were shocked by the news.

[00:04:50] Nothing like this had ever happened to their family before.

[00:04:53] Anita had been such a bright light.

[00:04:56] It seemed inconceivable that she was gone so suddenly, violently snatched away from all those who loved her.

[00:05:02] Meanwhile, Harris went in and spoke with police.

[00:05:06] He claimed he and Anita had had consensual sex and that he had last seen her at 3 a.m.

[00:05:12] Now, that statement is thrown into question.

[00:05:15] The fact that they'd been out drinking that night leads to the possibility of consent being impossible due to intoxication.

[00:05:23] It is hard to say for certain, given that Anita is deceased and cannot share what happened to her.

[00:05:29] Either way, police understandably looked at Harris as a suspect.

[00:05:34] But then another possibility came on their radar.

[00:05:39] On the day the body was discovered, a man named Alan Andre Causey, known as Andre, approached the crime scene where bystanders gathered.

[00:05:48] Witnesses said he had circled the area in his car prior to approaching.

[00:05:52] Causey lived at the 6700 block of Hillcroft Drive.

[00:05:56] He did not have a felony record.

[00:05:58] That day, he made a rather odd statement, though, saying, I didn't kill her.

[00:06:03] Then he claimed to have found the body.

[00:06:05] Police had him come down to the station.

[00:06:08] Then detectives said he gave multiple conflicting stories about where he was when Anita was killed.

[00:06:14] Soon, another story emerged involving both Causey and another man named Bobby Harrell.

[00:06:21] Harrell lived at the Spring Creek Apartments.

[00:06:24] He and Causey were friends and soon to be brothers in law.

[00:06:28] At the time, police said both men were jumpy while being questioned.

[00:06:32] Harrell threw up.

[00:06:33] Causey cried.

[00:06:35] According to police, Causey claimed Harrell was the one who killed Anita over a drug dispute.

[00:06:42] According to this confession, he and Harrell were out in the early morning having just purchased crack cocaine.

[00:06:49] At one point, he saw Harrell and Anita arguing and another African-American man fleeing.

[00:06:56] Kevin Harris is African-American.

[00:06:59] Causey said that Harrell accused Anita of participating in some kind of drug theft.

[00:07:04] At that point, Anita tried to run, but Causey chased her.

[00:07:10] He said in his confession that he knocked her down and began to choke her.

[00:07:15] The two men grabbed her and Harrell hit her with a belt buckle, kicked her, and hit her in the head with cement brick.

[00:07:22] Causey gave this confession to two different police officers and he signed it.

[00:07:29] Harrell never confessed.

[00:07:31] Charges against him were later dropped due to lack of evidence.

[00:07:36] But Causey's case went to trial.

[00:07:38] His confession was one of the biggest pieces of evidence against him.

[00:07:42] His supporters say he was coerced or tricked into confessing.

[00:07:46] They noted that he had trouble reading and that Hector Polanco, an Austin detective accused of coercing many false confessions, was involved in his case.

[00:07:55] Those who believe he is guilty say Causey only brought up coercion later on after stories about Polanco hit the news and that Polanco had little direct involvement in this case.

[00:08:05] Proponents of Causey say that the prosecution's theory of the case revolved around an improbable tale of a drug deal gone wrong, especially given that Anita Byington had zero involvement with drugs, according to her family and friends.

[00:08:18] Those who believe Causey is guilty say that the prosecution at the time was not maligning Anita and that the theory only requires that Anita be in the wrong place at the wrong time and mistaken for someone involved in the drug trade.

[00:08:31] Those who believe Causey is innocent say that the police had the right idea at first when they were investigating Harris, that his DNA was found on Anita's body, that his story of having her drive him to his truck and then abandoning her in an unfamiliar city was bizarre,

[00:08:46] and that he has a history of terrible violence against women.

[00:08:49] Those who believe Causey is guilty counter that the DNA is accounted for by the story of a sexual encounter and that Harris has always denied involvement.

[00:08:58] They say an alternate theory that accounts for Harris's behavior that night is that he brought Anita along for a drug deal.

[00:09:04] The situation got out of control and he abandoned Anita at the scene.

[00:09:08] The jury in Causey's trial ended up finding him guilty.

[00:09:12] He was convicted and sentenced to 50 years in prison.

[00:09:17] He served 31 years and was released in October 2022 on parole.

[00:09:23] But some believe that just merely releasing Causey was not enough.

[00:09:27] They maintain that he was wrongfully convicted and that he ought to be exonerated, not just paroled.

[00:09:34] The Innocence Project of Texas began digging into his case.

[00:09:38] Lawyers there felt they had a strong argument.

[00:09:42] When the Travis County Prosecutor's Office got in touch with them about Brady violations, the two groups, the prosecutors and the defense attorneys, embarked on a joint investigation into this case.

[00:09:56] They came away feeling that Causey had been wrongfully convicted.

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[00:12:30] The DA's office began the process of setting hearings before a judge to formally exonerate Kazi.

[00:12:38] Anita's cousin, Christina Byington, says she found out about all of this from a Facebook post fundraising based on Kazi's story from the Innocence Project of Texas.

[00:12:48] She says she was shocked and horrified.

[00:12:51] She still believes that Kazi is guilty.

[00:12:53] She did not want to see him be exonerated.

[00:12:56] Terry Kiel, a local lawyer who served as a prosecutor at Kazi's trial, took up her case.

[00:13:02] They said that Kazi's case was reopened in secret and that Travis County failed to inform Anita Byington's surviving relatives.

[00:13:09] They have also expressed discomfort with the fact that the DA and the Innocence Project of Texas worked together on this.

[00:13:16] Christina has expressed concern that the collaboration speaks to an agenda to quietly force through a wrongful conviction narrative and enjoy the positive headlines.

[00:13:24] But there's another side to this.

[00:13:25] For their part, the DA and the Innocence Project of Texas have stressed that they have their own obligations to justice in the case of the DA and to their client in the case of the Innocence Project.

[00:13:38] But suffice to say that the situation has become rather heated.

[00:13:42] Christina has taken to social media and traditional media to criticize the Travis County Prosecutor's Office, notably District Attorney Jose Garza.

[00:13:52] The story got big and it got political.

[00:13:56] And Christina has found her criticisms of DA Garza receiving increased attention.

[00:14:02] On the social media platform now known as X, conservative Republican governor of Texas Greg Abbott even retweeted one of her posts criticizing DA Garza.

[00:14:12] Supporters of Kazi say that the attacks have merely been fanned by contentious local and national politics.

[00:14:18] They point to criticisms about DA Garza receiving funding from Democratic mega donor George Soros.

[00:14:25] The Anti-Defamation League cautions that conspiracy theories around Soros can function as an anti-Semitic dog whistle because they focus exclusively on one billionaire that happens to be Jewish and progressive rather than the many other billionaires that donate to more conservative causes.

[00:14:41] Either way, the whole thing seems to have gotten tied into ongoing battles over progressive district attorneys elected in the wake of the murder of George Floyd.

[00:14:50] Critics say they're soft on crime, that they make it impossible for police to do their jobs, that they hand out concessions to dangerous criminals, that they render communities unsafe and that they make victims and their families feel overlooked.

[00:15:04] Proponents say that these prosecutors are ushering in the changes needed to set up a more equitable system and that they hold police accountable.

[00:15:12] They are right to focus on bail reform and other measures for rehabilitation, and the conservatives have cherry picked crime statistics in order to fear monger and that they all still care about victims and doing justice.

[00:15:25] Despite the fact that this story is blown up, it is ultimately much smaller and more personal than you would think.

[00:15:31] It's a story about loss.

[00:15:33] Christina lost her beloved cousin to a brutal crime years ago and now feels that Anita's killer is being lionized.

[00:15:40] Alan Andre Cozzi and his team proclaim his innocence and believe he was wrongfully convicted and say he is also a victim in this situation, that he served 31 years for something he just didn't do.

[00:15:52] In true crime, there's always a push for a simple narrative.

[00:15:56] Evil serial killer preys on the innocent.

[00:15:58] Perfect husband turns out to be a sinister, violent narcissist.

[00:16:01] Warm, caring medical professional morphs into an angel of death in order to play God.

[00:16:07] We think that impulse to always choose simplicity is very unfortunate.

[00:16:11] Don't you sometimes wonder when you see a podcast that pumps out episode after episode about cases the host feels must be wrongful convictions?

[00:16:18] It's like, how lucky that you keep hitting on these stories.

[00:16:21] And then you read the probable cause affidavits for the homicides involved and you realize that the creator is exclusively running defense talking points.

[00:16:29] Or have you ever watched a documentary or read a book that leans on interviews with police and prosecutors and completely convinces you of someone's guilt?

[00:16:38] Then you read more about the case later and realize that the creators omitted key details that raise all sorts of questions, perhaps beyond a reasonable doubt.

[00:16:46] Well, that's not how we want to do things here.

[00:16:49] We wish to present this case with all of its wrinkles.

[00:16:52] We are fortunate that we got to talk to the various sides.

[00:16:55] We hope this allows us to cover this complicated story with the nuance and grace it deserves.

[00:17:01] We trust our audience to hear everything out and then form an opinion or even walk away with lingering questions.

[00:17:08] We know you all have open minds, not just about who killed Anita or whether or not Mr.

[00:17:13] Causey is innocent or how his confession came about.

[00:17:17] But also questions of how authorities can handle it when breaking the news of a possible wrongful conviction to victims' families.

[00:17:23] How can we make victims' families feel heard even when the news is hard to hear?

[00:17:27] How can the process be better equipped in that sense?

[00:17:30] And what about the contentiousness?

[00:17:32] Is it ever helpful to boil down discussions around crime to large scale national politics?

[00:17:38] Today, we'll be hearing from Christina Byington.

[00:17:40] She will tell us about her cousin Anita.

[00:17:43] She will voice anger at the proceedings.

[00:17:46] In our next episode tomorrow, we will be hearing from the other side, the Innocence Project of Texas.

[00:17:52] The group of lawyers dedicated to securing Causey's exoneration will share with us why they believe he's innocent,

[00:17:57] why he has been very much a victim of this crime too,

[00:18:00] why he should be exonerated and how they go about working to exonerate individuals they believe to be factually innocent.

[00:18:07] We hope this project underscores the fearsome clashes that can arise over crime,

[00:18:12] how they can tap into wider political debates,

[00:18:14] how they can lead to insurmountable gulfs between the various sides of the issue,

[00:18:18] how behind every successful murder conviction,

[00:18:21] there's a potential for a wrongful conviction of an innocent person,

[00:18:25] and how behind every exoneration,

[00:18:27] there's the possibility of a grieving family thrown into chaos,

[00:18:30] left feeling like a guilty man is walking free.

[00:18:34] My name is Anya Kane.

[00:18:36] I'm a journalist.

[00:18:37] And I'm Kevin Greenlee.

[00:18:38] I'm an attorney.

[00:18:39] And this is The Murder Sheet.

[00:18:41] We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting,

[00:18:45] interviews and deep dives into murder cases.

[00:18:49] We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:18:50] And this is The Murder of Anita Byington,

[00:18:53] an interview with her cousin,

[00:18:55] Christina Byington.

[00:19:41] This first section of the episode comes from an interview we did back in the winter.

[00:19:46] At that time, many legal developments had not yet occurred and the story had not blown up quite so much.

[00:19:51] Christina, can you tell us about your cousin, Anita?

[00:19:55] I understand that even though you were cousins, you were really a bit more like sisters.

[00:20:00] Yeah, we grew up together.

[00:20:02] She lived in Houston and I lived several hours away in Falcirius.

[00:20:06] But every holiday, every vacation, a lot of weekends, you know, we were together all the time.

[00:20:14] She was four years younger than I was.

[00:20:17] So I always looked out for her.

[00:20:19] She was funny.

[00:20:21] Just a lot of fun to be around all the time.

[00:20:26] What happened to Anita?

[00:20:28] Can you tell us?

[00:20:30] Yeah, she was attending college in San Marcos and she went for a weekend in Austin with her friends.

[00:20:41] And on that Saturday night, August 10th, it was three of them, three girls and then three acquaintances that they knew who worked at the Capitol.

[00:20:53] And they all went out on 6th Street.

[00:20:57] And at the end of the night, they were in two different cars.

[00:21:02] And Anita and one of the acquaintances were in one car and the others were in the other car and they were supposed to follow each other.

[00:21:10] And then she never showed up.

[00:21:12] And the next morning, well, even that night, I think they were making calls and, you know, calling her friends, calling, you know, trying to find out where she was.

[00:21:22] And they had no luck.

[00:21:24] And the next thing they knew, you know, her body was found next to an apartment complex.

[00:21:33] Can you speak about what that awful, awful tragedy was like for you and your family when it happened?

[00:21:42] Well, I just remember thinking that she was left there like a dog, you know, I mean, just horribly sad, surreal.

[00:21:52] Hard to believe, you know, this was 32 years ago.

[00:21:55] And even now, you know, in the intervening years, sometimes I think about it and think, God, did that really happen?

[00:22:04] Like it blows my mind that this actually happened in our family.

[00:22:10] And I've had since day one, I dreamt about her a lot, constantly, you know, and then they tapered off for a while and then they come back.

[00:22:19] And a lot of the dreams, I'm just so happy to see her like, oh, my God, you know, you're here.

[00:22:26] And then other dreams are, you know, just there's, you know, I'm trying to help her or, you know, there's horror in the dreams.

[00:22:34] You know, it just depends.

[00:22:36] But you put it away.

[00:22:38] You know what I mean?

[00:22:39] You don't, you know, for the first several years, I was severely traumatized.

[00:22:43] And then you kind of put it away, but you never forget.

[00:22:48] But this has brought it all back, like like if it's happening now, it's it's really strange.

[00:22:56] Absolutely.

[00:22:58] I'm so sorry for what your family went through and what you went through back then, but also.

[00:23:03] I feel like this re-traumatization that's happened recently, and we'll get to that in a moment, but, you know, I guess to start off with, can you just break down the facts of the case?

[00:23:14] You've really done some incredible research and deep dives into your cousin's case.

[00:23:20] And just I guess maybe before we get into what's going on now, we could talk about what the investigation uncovered about what happened to Anita.

[00:23:31] Basically, the story that I know that I've always heard is that they were supposed to follow each other.

[00:23:39] She was with the acquaintance named Kevin Harris.

[00:23:43] And she didn't know him well.

[00:23:45] She had met him once before.

[00:23:47] I think all of them had only met him once before, but he worked at the Capitol.

[00:23:51] So.

[00:23:53] He was questioned by the police the next day, and he said he last saw her at 3 a.m.

[00:23:59] And he didn't know.

[00:24:01] You know, he hadn't seen her again, but his story changed several times later, he claimed they had sex and then she says she wanted to go buy some crack cocaine, which is ridiculous.

[00:24:11] You know, she she didn't even know what crack cocaine was, you know, and she didn't have any money on her at all.

[00:24:17] So that was testified to in court.

[00:24:19] And he had a cut on his arm the next morning and he claimed that he burned himself cooking breakfast and nobody nobody ever believed him back then or now.

[00:24:32] I also understand that her toxicology screening came back negative for drugs.

[00:24:38] Right. Completely negative.

[00:24:40] And she was not a drug user.

[00:24:41] That's that's right. No, not at all.

[00:24:44] Not at all.

[00:24:46] And also, Kevin Harris asked one of his coworkers to lie for him.

[00:24:52] You know something that's in the trial transcript that, you know, he wanted a friend to say that he had seen him her dropping him off or something like that, you know, and so everybody knew he was everybody believed he was lying.

[00:25:07] You know, even back then, the police, everybody, the prosecutors, everybody, you know.

[00:25:13] And the theory is that he took her to that area of town where she was found in because she wouldn't know that area.

[00:25:23] One of her friends that was with her that night, I remember this 32 years ago.

[00:25:27] She told me we wouldn't even go to that part of town during the day.

[00:25:31] You know, we just we wouldn't go near there.

[00:25:34] So the theory is that he took her there.

[00:25:37] You know, she was intoxicated.

[00:25:39] He tried to make some sort of drug deal.

[00:25:42] And when things went bad, he fled and left her there to be killed.

[00:25:48] So awful.

[00:25:50] I can you tell us because people might be wondering, well, is Harris the guy who is who is arrested?

[00:25:56] And actually it was a man named Alan Andre Causey, although he goes by Andre Causey.

[00:26:01] I understand. Can you tell us about him?

[00:26:04] OK, yeah. Because Harris was questioned, but he wasn't arrested because he what happened with him is

[00:26:11] that the next morning when the crime scene was being processed, he kept driving around, you know, circling around

[00:26:19] real conspicuously because two separate people took down his license plate and called the cops.

[00:26:25] And eventually he parked, got out of the car and went into the crowd and then blurted out to strangers.

[00:26:35] I didn't kill her, but I found her body and I called the cops.

[00:26:40] Which is really odd, you know, and so that's how the police first got onto him.

[00:26:47] They wanted to at least question him.

[00:26:50] Did he call the cops?

[00:26:51] Look, is that even true?

[00:26:53] No, he didn't find her body.

[00:26:55] That's weird.

[00:26:56] Yeah, somebody else found her body.

[00:26:58] He had nothing to do with finding her body or anything.

[00:27:03] So by that evening, they they found they found the car, the license plate, you know, and they found him.

[00:27:10] So they took him in for questioning.

[00:27:12] And according to the police, he was not yet a suspect.

[00:27:15] But when they were questioning him, he changed his story like eight or nine times of what he was doing the previous night.

[00:27:23] He changed it. He kept changing it, changing why he had that car because it was his friend's car.

[00:27:29] And he claimed that he was with Bobby Harrell, his friend, you know, all night.

[00:27:33] And but he just kept changing the details.

[00:27:36] And that's when they began to see him as a suspect.

[00:27:41] And they read him as right, you know, and continued questioning him.

[00:27:45] What was some of the other evidence against him?

[00:27:48] His confession was the main evidence against him, but he described Bobby Harrell beating her with a belt buckle.

[00:27:57] And from my understanding of the trial transcript.

[00:28:01] The police didn't know about that yet because the medical examiner's report didn't come out until the following day.

[00:28:10] You know, and then he confirmed it, that it was a belt buckle, a lot of the marks found on her were from a belt buckle.

[00:28:18] So his defense after the confession at the pre-trial hearing was that he's a poor reader and he couldn't read it and he didn't know what he was signing.

[00:28:28] He thought he was just signing something saying that they didn't beat him.

[00:28:32] By the time of the trial, Sergeant Polanco was in the news regarding other cases and possible interrogation techniques and false confessions.

[00:28:42] Well, then he changed his defense to I was coerced by Polanco.

[00:28:46] He actually read a portion of his confession on the stand with no trouble.

[00:28:51] Yeah, you've talked about the trial.

[00:28:53] What happened at the trial?

[00:28:55] What was the outcome of the trial?

[00:28:57] He was found guilty and sentenced to 50 years.

[00:29:01] And and our understanding is that Bobby Harrell was never not enough evidence against him.

[00:29:07] Right, exactly.

[00:29:10] Now, Bobby Harrell, when they questioned him that same night and they said he was sweating profusely and violently throwing up.

[00:29:19] When they questioned him.

[00:29:22] But he never admitted to anything.

[00:29:24] Now, the name of Hector Polanco might be familiar to a lot of our listeners in Texas who follow crime, but it may not be familiar to everyone.

[00:29:33] Can you tell us a little bit about who that is?

[00:29:37] Yes, I don't know a whole lot.

[00:29:39] I just know what I've seen in the media.

[00:29:41] But he's been accused of coercion and things like that.

[00:29:46] He has taken false confessions, confessions that later were proven to be false.

[00:29:51] I don't know how many, but I know that he was fired at one point and he sued and he won and got his job back.

[00:30:01] So he was never charged with anything or anything like that.

[00:30:06] But my main concern is that according to everybody who was there that night, Polanco was never alone with Cossie.

[00:30:15] Three other officers testified to that.

[00:30:18] So for Cossie's defense to be true, that means that all of these four police officers all conspired and lied to frame him.

[00:30:28] You know, which I guess could happen, but to me, if they wanted to frame somebody, wouldn't they frame Kevin Harris?

[00:30:34] I mean, they had him on a platter, you know, with DNA, with fingerprint.

[00:30:39] If they were really just trying to solve the case and frame somebody, there you go, Kevin Harris.

[00:30:43] The reason that didn't happen or that they didn't pursue him further is because Cossie confessed.

[00:30:50] I mean, it just makes sense.

[00:30:52] And your understanding, having really delved into Anita's case, was Polanco like lead on it?

[00:30:57] Was he very, very involved or was he more of in a supervising position?

[00:31:01] Supervisor.

[00:31:03] They said he was in and out that night, but he didn't take his confession.

[00:31:09] Sergeant Huckabee took his confession.

[00:31:11] And then after that, Cossie was taken to another room by Sergeant Fuentes and Cossie verbally gave his confession again as Fuentes typed it.

[00:31:24] And Fuentes testified to that in court.

[00:31:27] So he's lying too?

[00:31:29] You know what I mean?

[00:31:30] And not only that, but as far as the DA's office investigation, you know, we've been doing a thorough investigation and all that.

[00:31:40] They haven't bothered to interview not even one of those cops.

[00:31:43] As far as I know, they haven't even contacted them, tried to contact them.

[00:31:47] Wouldn't that be one of the first things that you wanted to do if you're reinvestigating this case?

[00:31:52] You know, you want the actual truth.

[00:31:54] OK, who was there that night?

[00:31:55] Who took the confession?

[00:31:56] If we're saying this confession is false, who was there?

[00:31:59] Let's let's interview them.

[00:32:00] Let's find them, do whatever it takes to find them.

[00:32:02] They can be found.

[00:32:04] No, they haven't bothered.

[00:32:05] They'd rather take the word of a crack cocaine using convicted murderer.

[00:32:11] I can I can envision circumstances where police are not necessarily trying to be coercive, but they end up being coercive and they get a false confession.

[00:32:19] And I feel like if you ask questions of the people there, you might get evidence to support that or or contradict it.

[00:32:26] Right. Like it's it's part of the process of figuring out what happened and how like if you're truly concerned about wrongful convictions and false confessions, it probably is helpful to get as much data as possible on that.

[00:32:38] Right. Right.

[00:32:40] I mean, I would love to hear from any of those police officers because I want the truth also.

[00:32:45] That's all I want. Yeah.

[00:32:48] But it doesn't seem like that's what the motive is in this reinvestigation at all.

[00:32:55] And that's that's my issue.

[00:32:57] So what was it like for you when he received parole?

[00:33:02] Oh, it was horrible.

[00:33:04] You know, I got the letter and it's just sickening, you know, and then you think about it.

[00:33:11] Well, 31 years.

[00:33:12] OK, that's something, you know, we got some justice.

[00:33:16] Some families don't even get that.

[00:33:18] And then Harold got away with it completely, in my opinion.

[00:33:21] So, yeah, it was.

[00:33:22] And then I just said, well, I said to myself, there's nothing you can do about it.

[00:33:26] So just put it out of your mind.

[00:33:28] Don't even think about it.

[00:33:29] And can you tell us about then seeing that Innocence Project of Texas Facebook post and realizing that the, you know, parole was not going to be the end of it?

[00:33:42] That was a million times worse.

[00:33:43] I mean, I I started shaking.

[00:33:47] I was shaking for hours, sobbing.

[00:33:51] I had to call one of my friends.

[00:33:52] I was just sobbing because I never needed to see that face in my whole life.

[00:33:58] It was something that I never needed nor wanted to see.

[00:34:01] And there it was right in front of my face, smiling, posted there as if he was already exonerated.

[00:34:08] He was paroled, not exonerated.

[00:34:11] And at that point, I didn't know what was happening.

[00:34:13] But seeing the Innocence Project is representing a guy who beat Anita to death.

[00:34:20] Just horrible.

[00:34:23] What did you do from there to figure out what the heck was going on?

[00:34:28] Well, because I had gotten a call from one of the witnesses in the case, one of the friends who was with Anita that night, the night she was killed, and she said they called me and but they wouldn't tell me

[00:34:40] what what it was about.

[00:34:42] And then another witness got a visit from a lawyer from the Innocence Project and an investigator from the DA's office together.

[00:34:50] And that's what made me go look at the Innocence Project page.

[00:34:54] So then I I called.

[00:34:57] So I found out who the assistant DA was in charge, I called her and I left the voicemail.

[00:35:02] And then I used one of those cards with the investigator's number and I called her.

[00:35:08] Her name is Jenna Fechner.

[00:35:10] And she explained to me what was happening that, yeah, there's a reinvestigation.

[00:35:16] She said we have to do it.

[00:35:17] You know, even if it just calls, we have to do it.

[00:35:20] We have to reinvestigate.

[00:35:22] So she made it seem like it was kind of a technicality.

[00:35:25] And she said we might be looking at DNA evidence.

[00:35:29] And I was happy.

[00:35:30] I said, well, that's great because they could possibly find something on Harold after all these years.

[00:35:35] And I she asked me if I would be interested in speaking with Mia St.

[00:35:40] Victor, who was the assistant DA in charge.

[00:35:43] And I said, yes, she's the one who I had left the voicemail for.

[00:35:47] And I told Jenna that I would like to be as involved as possible and I would like to be updated frequently about what's happening with this case.

[00:35:55] And she said, sure.

[00:35:57] And it started from there.

[00:36:01] Absolutely. I'm curious in terms of, you know, do you believe now that this was just a routine thing?

[00:36:09] No, no. Not at all.

[00:36:13] Not at all. And after that phone call, Mia did call me back and I missed her call.

[00:36:19] I called her back the next day, asked her to call me back.

[00:36:22] Nothing. Ten months went by and I just didn't want to deal with it.

[00:36:27] So I just kept putting it off like, oh, I need to call these people.

[00:36:29] And I just kept putting it off, putting it off.

[00:36:32] And ten months went by and the witness called me again and she said they called me again trying to ask questions because there's a hearing this afternoon before a judge.

[00:36:41] And which I wasn't notified of.

[00:36:44] So I had to call them back ten months later because they hadn't bothered to call, notify anything.

[00:36:52] Now, by that time, they had already agreed on on several points of his innocence.

[00:36:58] They continued lying to us saying, well, we haven't made that determination yet.

[00:37:01] We're just investigating.

[00:37:03] It was a big mess since then.

[00:37:05] You know.

[00:37:07] That must have been so incredibly frustrating.

[00:37:11] I think people tend to believe that the prosecutor's offices are going to be more in touch with, you know, families throughout the process.

[00:37:18] But obviously that did not happen here.

[00:37:22] No, almost a whole year and nothing.

[00:37:25] All the while they were having secret hearings on this case, you know, signing off on his innocence or signing off on certain points of the exoneration.

[00:37:37] You know, all of that's being done.

[00:37:39] The family, they didn't care.

[00:37:42] It's just a stroke of luck that the former prosecutor in the case, Terry Keel, he decided to help us.

[00:37:51] And that's just.

[00:37:54] A miracle to us because we wouldn't have known what was going on, what we could do.

[00:37:59] Anything.

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[00:39:38] I want to I want to get back to Mr.

[00:39:40] Keel in a moment, but in the meantime, I wanted to ask you, do you have a sense of I mean, I think I know you do because I know you've researched this extensively.

[00:39:50] Do you have a sense of what the basis for the Innocence Project of Texas and the state, the state, their contention that Kazi is in fact innocent?

[00:40:02] Do you like what evidence are they basing that assertion off of?

[00:40:06] They're saying that the confession was coerced and also that there was no DNA or fingerprints of Kazi's found, only that of Kevin Harris.

[00:40:18] So they're saying Kevin Harris was the actual killer.

[00:40:22] But Kevin Harris was with her all evening.

[00:40:25] So we know we knew that 32 years ago.

[00:40:28] This isn't new evidence.

[00:40:30] You know, we knew he was with her.

[00:40:32] We knew his fingerprints and DNA were there.

[00:40:35] What's interesting is that in the car.

[00:40:38] The lack of fingerprints where they should have been is interesting, and that lines up with Kazi's confession that Bobby Harrell wiped the area with a rag.

[00:40:49] If I may play devil's advocate for a moment, some people might be wondering, could Harris be the killer?

[00:40:54] Just given his suspicious behavior and the fact that he, you know, certainly certainly did not stand by Anita that night.

[00:41:03] And certainly there's some suspicion there.

[00:41:06] I can understand that.

[00:41:07] What are your thoughts on that possibility?

[00:41:09] And how open to that are you or are there other things that we're not thinking about that point away from him?

[00:41:17] I feel that I mean, Kevin Harris was involved.

[00:41:21] You know, we know that we've known that since day one.

[00:41:25] But that doesn't make the other two innocent.

[00:41:27] Why would Kevin Harris take her to some random apartment complex and kill her there where he didn't live there?

[00:41:34] I don't know. It's a possibility.

[00:41:37] But the circumstantial evidence.

[00:41:40] I mean, I believe that that's not the case.

[00:41:44] That makes sense.

[00:41:45] And I'm interested.

[00:41:47] I know one thing that's kind of come up with the with the new.

[00:41:51] Innocence Project motions around cause is that there's a new exculpatory evidence, that's what they're claiming around two new witnesses.

[00:42:01] Can you speak to that?

[00:42:03] Yes, the main one, the main witness was Kevin Harris's either girlfriend or ex-girlfriend at the time, and I think they were on and off.

[00:42:15] And she's claiming.

[00:42:18] Thirty one years after the fact, you know, they got a deposition from her that he showed up that night.

[00:42:26] And with a cut on his arm and he was upset and he asked her to move a car, help him move a car, a friend's car, which was Anita's car.

[00:42:34] And she claims that she helped him move it to where the car was found.

[00:42:41] Now, her testimony on the stand was extremely vague.

[00:42:45] She in her deposition said at 2 a.m.

[00:42:49] But on the stand, she said she had no idea of the time, probably after midnight.

[00:42:55] And she didn't know any of the logistics of who drove what, anything like that.

[00:43:03] And she wasn't asked.

[00:43:04] She said she saw a purse in the car, but she wasn't asked where she saw it, what it looked like.

[00:43:09] Anything, so it was extremely vague.

[00:43:11] She wasn't cross examined or scrutinized at all.

[00:43:15] And her story changed from within a year from her deposition to her testimony.

[00:43:21] So that right there changed her memory.

[00:43:24] If it's going to change from her story she gave a year ago, imagine a story from 32 years ago.

[00:43:32] And I also understand that there have been some new claims made about the time Anita actually passed away.

[00:43:41] Can you tell us about that?

[00:43:42] The time of death was listed at 530 a.m.

[00:43:48] But now in order for the defense, for their story to be true, they needed to change the time of death.

[00:44:00] And so they got a forensic scientist on the stand and she claimed that time of death cannot be determined.

[00:44:08] You can only determine it from the last time that the person was seen alive.

[00:44:13] And the judge asked her, but you can get a window of time?

[00:44:15] And she said no.

[00:44:17] So to me, that's crazy.

[00:44:20] Paid for by the defense.

[00:44:22] You know, all these witnesses, you know, are defense witnesses.

[00:44:25] Right.

[00:44:27] Now here's somebody in your camp, Terry Keel.

[00:44:30] You mentioned him earlier.

[00:44:32] Can you tell us a little bit about who he is and what he's doing now?

[00:44:36] He works for the Department of Agriculture.

[00:44:39] He was a former assistant DA, former sheriff of Travis County, former state rep.

[00:44:46] And one of Anita's closest friends from high school and college.

[00:44:51] They were roommates.

[00:44:53] We've been in touch.

[00:44:54] She's been helping me with this since day one.

[00:44:57] She one day she said, you know what?

[00:44:59] I remember the prosecutor and he was so good.

[00:45:01] Maybe I should email him, right?

[00:45:03] I said, yeah, go ahead.

[00:45:05] Within 30 minutes, he called.

[00:45:07] Within 30, you know, he's treated us the way the DA's office should have treated us, but didn't.

[00:45:15] And he offered to help us and represent our family.

[00:45:20] Absolutely.

[00:45:21] What's that been like, given that you've felt so let down by the Travis County prosecutor's office?

[00:45:27] The current iteration of that.

[00:45:29] It's been amazing.

[00:45:30] And he explained what was happening and he is firm in his belief in Kazi's guilt.

[00:45:39] And it reinforced what I already thought.

[00:45:43] I've been asking the DA's office if they could get me a trial transcript and other documents.

[00:45:48] They didn't get me anything.

[00:45:49] He got the trial transcript for us.

[00:45:52] We read through the whole thing, took notes.

[00:45:55] He's just been able to help us.

[00:45:57] Without him, I don't even know how this would be going right now.

[00:46:03] Now, the Innocence Project of Texas and the Travis County DA's office have not

[00:46:09] reacted well to him filing an amicus curiae in the case.

[00:46:13] Can you speak to that?

[00:46:14] And I'm getting the sense from reading the Innocence Project's filing that they don't

[00:46:18] even feel Kiel should be representing you because he used to work for Travis County.

[00:46:23] Is that right?

[00:46:24] Yes.

[00:46:26] He's supposed to get permission, I guess, from the DA's office.

[00:46:30] So I know there's been some talk about whether or not he has permission from his previous

[00:46:35] employer, the Travis County DA's office, to even work on Anita's case.

[00:46:40] Can you speak to that?

[00:46:42] Yes.

[00:46:43] That came up at the first hearing.

[00:46:44] Terry Kiel stood up and demanded that the family be able to give a statement, which

[00:46:51] the DA's office and the Innocence Project were fighting strenuously against.

[00:46:55] They didn't want me to be heard.

[00:46:57] And at that point, Mike Ware started making accusations of misconduct and saying that

[00:47:05] Terry didn't have permission.

[00:47:07] He shouldn't even be there.

[00:47:09] And Terry did have permission.

[00:47:13] The previous DA, Ronnie Earl, who Terry worked under, was in touch with my aunt and uncle.

[00:47:20] Anita's parents after Kazi's trial and while they were still looking at Harold.

[00:47:26] And so he would keep them updated and keep talking to them.

[00:47:29] And when he retired, he asked Terry to do the same.

[00:47:34] So he did have permission from Ronnie Earl.

[00:47:39] Absolutely.

[00:47:40] And what has it been like for you to be attending those hearings?

[00:47:45] I imagine it's a difficult process.

[00:47:48] It's very surreal to be sitting in the same room with the person that you believe beat

[00:47:55] your cousin to death.

[00:47:57] It's in my wildest imaginings, I could have never imagined this happening now after all

[00:48:05] these years.

[00:48:06] I understand that the DA's office has asserted that you have no rights because you were not

[00:48:11] a quote close relative.

[00:48:13] Can you speak to that?

[00:48:15] That argument and how that makes you feel?

[00:48:19] Yes.

[00:48:20] They're that's from a statute, I believe, you know, in Texas.

[00:48:26] And it just angered me because it's not Anita's fault that she didn't live long enough to have

[00:48:33] children.

[00:48:33] You know, she didn't have brothers and sisters.

[00:48:36] Her parents are deceased.

[00:48:37] And I believe both of them died prematurely due to the grief that they suffered.

[00:48:44] And.

[00:48:47] There, you know, she was like my little sister.

[00:48:50] So, yeah, I'm just a cousin, but.

[00:48:55] I don't know, that's insulting to me.

[00:48:58] Yeah, I mean, it sounds like you were more than a cousin in terms of, you know, your

[00:49:03] closeness.

[00:49:03] Right.

[00:49:04] I, you know, I just.

[00:49:07] I think there's ways to talk about the law without minimizing people's pain so much.

[00:49:12] But that's just my opinion.

[00:49:14] Right.

[00:49:15] And they also they've been trying to weasel their way out of it, stating that, well, we

[00:49:22] couldn't find any family.

[00:49:23] The closest family we found was one of the witnesses in the case who's a distant relative

[00:49:29] of Anita.

[00:49:30] And so we contacted her.

[00:49:33] No, they contacted her as a witness, period.

[00:49:36] It's just a coincidence that she's related.

[00:49:40] You know, they didn't tell her anything about family, let family know nothing.

[00:49:45] They contacted her as a witness.

[00:49:48] And myself, my brother and a lot of her other relatives are registered with the state.

[00:49:54] You know, our addresses are registered with the state.

[00:49:57] You know, our addresses, our phone numbers, everything we get.

[00:50:00] We got letters when he was up for parole, you know, so it would be very easy to find

[00:50:05] this if anybody had tried.

[00:50:07] But they didn't try.

[00:50:09] I know you've mentioned in some of your writings about this of having negative interactions

[00:50:14] with some of the attorneys in the courtroom.

[00:50:16] Can you speak to that?

[00:50:17] On the Innocence Project attorneys, they they smirked at us and scowled at us all day long.

[00:50:23] The DA's office, ever since the hearing started, they've gone out of their way, you know, at

[00:50:32] the hearings to appear helpful.

[00:50:34] You know, is there anything we can do?

[00:50:37] You know, we're sorry about this.

[00:50:38] And but actually, the first assistant DA, I met her for the first time after the January

[00:50:47] 5th hearing.

[00:50:48] We had a meeting with several of us, Anita's friends, family members and several people

[00:50:55] from the DA's office.

[00:50:57] Her name is Trudy Strasburger.

[00:50:59] She was explaining something and I interrupted her, which I shouldn't have, but I didn't

[00:51:05] do it in a rude fashion or anything.

[00:51:08] And this isn't the first day I'm meeting her.

[00:51:10] She just looked up and said, would you let me finish?

[00:51:14] I was just astounded.

[00:51:17] She would speak to a murder victim's family like that.

[00:51:21] It's incredible.

[00:51:24] I'm curious, why do you suppose they are doing all of this?

[00:51:29] Why all this is happening around Kazi's case?

[00:51:33] Well, it's a good story.

[00:51:35] You know, this, this, it's for headlines.

[00:51:40] You know, we're writing this wrong.

[00:51:42] This poor innocent guy was convicted of something he didn't do.

[00:51:48] You know, imagine the headlines.

[00:51:50] And I don't know, but Travis County DA Garza, he has a reputation for being extremely soft

[00:52:00] on criminals.

[00:52:01] And I don't understand it.

[00:52:04] And I didn't know about any of it until our case came up and I started researching it.

[00:52:08] And it's, he's very anti-cop.

[00:52:13] He appears to be.

[00:52:14] And extremely soft on criminals.

[00:52:18] So that's a big part of it.

[00:52:20] Did you have an opinion on the Innocence Project as a concept?

[00:52:27] Obviously, it's a pretty large organization.

[00:52:30] There's different iterations of it based on different locations.

[00:52:33] So, you know, I'm speaking about the concept as a whole at this point, you know, before

[00:52:40] before this happened.

[00:52:40] And if so, what was that opinion?

[00:52:43] Oh yeah, I thought they were fantastic.

[00:52:45] You know, all these stories about these wrongs that they were writing, all these innocent

[00:52:51] people that that they were helping, you know, to get them released.

[00:52:58] I thought they were great.

[00:53:02] I thought that if the Innocence Project is representing somebody, they're innocent.

[00:53:06] There's got to be something there.

[00:53:08] And I've learned that that's not really the case.

[00:53:11] So how can the media do a good job covering cases like this where there's contention,

[00:53:17] where there's one side saying this guy is innocent, one side saying this guy is guilty

[00:53:22] without erasing the family of the victim from that process?

[00:53:27] How, what's a good way of the media to kind of handle those situations?

[00:53:34] To present both sides.

[00:53:35] You know, there was a Texas Monthly article around a month ago, and it's all about Polanco

[00:53:42] and the false confessions and beautiful pictures of Kazi and his wife and his home.

[00:53:48] And he went through the whole hearing, everybody who testified, except me.

[00:53:53] He left that part out completely.

[00:53:56] And I testified that day.

[00:53:58] He left out the fact that four officers testified that Polanco was guilty of the crime.

[00:54:04] He testified that Polanco was never alone with him.

[00:54:09] He left out that Polanco did not take his confession.

[00:54:12] You know, he left out everything.

[00:54:15] And I even talked to him on Twitter and he said, yeah, you make some good points.

[00:54:20] He left out that Kazi's defense changed after the preliminary hearing where they asked him

[00:54:32] were you threatened?

[00:54:34] And he said, no.

[00:54:36] Then months later, by the time of the trial, he changed his defense completely that he

[00:54:42] was threatened.

[00:54:43] So by presenting both sides, not just the facts that fit your bias, present it all and let

[00:54:51] the reader decide for themselves.

[00:54:55] The same thing recently happened with the Austin American Statesman, an article by Serena

[00:55:01] Lynn.

[00:55:02] It was a front page Sunday story and it's just a photo album of Kazi.

[00:55:07] And I was in the article also, but I don't care about that.

[00:55:13] I care about the evidence.

[00:55:14] And all of that was left out of the article.

[00:55:17] So all you got was just a pub piece of this poor, innocent guy who was railroaded.

[00:55:23] And it's not right.

[00:55:27] What are your feelings at this point on the Travis County prosecutor's office and how they

[00:55:31] could better serve victims' families in the future and not do this again, basically, what

[00:55:36] they did to you?

[00:55:39] Basically, what they could do is elect somebody else.

[00:55:43] At this point, that is the only remedy because there seems to be some sort of mentality going

[00:55:51] on with the leadership, with DA Garza and on down.

[00:55:56] And there's a lot of documented proof of that.

[00:55:59] So basically elect Jeremy Silestine or Daniel Betts.

[00:56:06] I believe that's his name.

[00:56:07] He's the Republican candidate against him.

[00:56:09] Silestine is the Democrat, Democratic candidate against him.

[00:56:15] That's the only remedy at this point for Travis County.

[00:56:18] And to be clear, you yourself have a background as a pretty liberal voter, right?

[00:56:26] Yes.

[00:56:27] So extremely liberal.

[00:56:28] So the fact that you're saying that definitely says something.

[00:56:32] Oh, yeah, definitely.

[00:56:34] I was extremely liberal.

[00:56:36] This case has changed my thinking and I'm having to reconsider everything, reexamine

[00:56:45] all of my previous thoughts.

[00:56:49] And I just don't know if I can even be a Democrat anymore, to be honest.

[00:56:54] And anybody who knows me knows how liberal I was.

[00:56:59] So it's just shaken up my whole world.

[00:57:03] Yeah.

[00:57:05] Here's a question that's kind of more of a macro question, but do you think that victims'

[00:57:10] families, murder victims' families need to be more organized on the local or national

[00:57:15] level when dealing with these kind of post-conviction legal developments?

[00:57:22] We've talked to some wonderful organizations like Parents of Murdered Children who do a

[00:57:25] lot to support families of murder victims, but I'm talking more about in the advocacy

[00:57:31] space of pushing back when families feel like justice is being overturned or taken away

[00:57:40] from their loved ones' cases.

[00:57:43] I'm not very familiar with any of this because this is all new to me.

[00:57:47] I know my aunt and uncle were very involved with, I believe, Parents of Murdered Children

[00:57:51] and People Against Violent Crime.

[00:57:57] So I know they were very involved.

[00:57:58] This is all new to me, but just Travis County alone, I'm seeing so many stories about people

[00:58:06] who were treated horribly by this DA.

[00:58:09] In fact, one woman just reached out to me on Facebook.

[00:58:14] So it's something to think about, and I myself may try to do something, get involved.

[00:58:22] None of this was planned for me.

[00:58:23] I never planned to be this outspoken thorn in the DA's office side, but this just kind

[00:58:30] of happened.

[00:58:33] It's uncomfortable for me.

[00:58:34] I don't like even being in pictures or sort of be on these news on camera.

[00:58:40] Oh, forget it.

[00:58:41] But I'm doing it because it's the right thing to do.

[00:58:45] Somebody needs to do it.

[00:58:46] If I hadn't spoken out, if I hadn't gotten involved, all of the news stories we'd be

[00:58:52] seeing now would just be, oh, this man is seeking exoneration, and that's it.

[00:58:57] That's all we'd be seeing, and I'm sure that's what they wanted to happen.

[00:59:01] But they didn't expect us or me, and I'm happy to do it, and I'm not going to stop.

[00:59:11] I can say one thing just so you know.

[00:59:13] Parents of murdered children doesn't just work with the literal parents.

[00:59:16] It's siblings, close relatives, friends even.

[00:59:19] So just that they have support groups, and that can be a resource for people.

[00:59:26] I think that's great that you're—I mean, as you said, I think when no one speaks up,

[00:59:31] then often one side is the only thing that's presented in the media, and that's for both

[00:59:36] sides.

[00:59:36] That's whether it's just the police saying things or just the defense attorneys.

[00:59:41] It gives—either way, it gives a limited picture.

[00:59:46] Yes, it does, and most of the news stations in Austin, to me, they've been very fair.

[00:59:56] Like I said, the Texas Monthly article and the article in the Statesman were just,

[01:00:02] in my opinion, so extremely biased, and it's frustrating to see that.

[01:00:08] But I just have to keep going because what I'm doing, I believe, is the right thing.

[01:00:14] And nobody's here to speak for Anita.

[01:00:16] Nobody's here to speak for her parents.

[01:00:18] And somebody had to, and so I did.

[01:00:21] LESLIE KENDRICK We all know that defense attorneys have a

[01:00:24] job to do, a very important, difficult job.

[01:00:27] Is there, though, a balance that can be struck between, I guess, when it comes to the defense

[01:00:34] attorneys, when it comes to the prosecutor's office, when it comes to everybody in the

[01:00:38] system who has a part in this, to balance protecting the rights of the defendant or

[01:00:45] ensuring that the right people are convicted and essentially treating the victim's families

[01:00:52] with respect, keeping them informed, treating them as partners rather than problems?

[01:01:00] Do you think that there can be a balance struck between those two seemingly competing impulses?

[01:01:05] ANITA KILGARRIFF-SMITH You know, I don't know that the

[01:01:09] Innocence Project owes the victim's families anything, but I will say that I thought it

[01:01:16] was despicable for me to see his picture plastered all over their social media with no warning,

[01:01:23] as if he were exonerated.

[01:01:25] That's just thoughtless and cruel, because they need to consider that behind every picture

[01:01:31] they're posting or everything they're saying, there is a victim's family.

[01:01:36] I don't know if they even ever considered that.

[01:01:40] I do know that at the hearings that we've been to, they just scowled at us and smirked

[01:01:45] at us.

[01:01:46] Why?

[01:01:48] Like, if we were the ones who had killed somebody, I would expect, you know, Mike Ware is the

[01:01:54] executive director, I believe, in Texas, of the Texas Innocence Project.

[01:01:58] And he's involved in this case, and he was the main one who scowled at us.

[01:02:03] I would expect him, if he saw me, to nod or say hello or something.

[01:02:08] But not that.

[01:02:09] It just, it's baffling.

[01:02:14] Like, we're the enemy.

[01:02:16] What did we do, though?

[01:02:17] We didn't do anything.

[01:02:18] Right.

[01:02:20] I feel like both sides have been treating you like the enemy, and it's, I think that

[01:02:26] there should be some understanding that even if they disagree with you, that you're coming

[01:02:29] from a place of advocacy for your cousin who you care deeply about.

[01:02:33] And if they want to change that, then perhaps convincing you that their assessment of the

[01:02:40] case is correct is the way to go, not treating you like you're a bad person for doing this.

[01:02:45] Well, I could understand.

[01:02:46] I could understand it now because I've been so outspoken against them, you know, and I've

[01:02:50] named them and said things about, you know, the Innocence Project and the DA's office.

[01:02:55] So now I could kind of understand, you know, getting a smirk or a scowl.

[01:02:59] But this was the first day.

[01:03:01] And I hadn't, I hadn't said anything yet.

[01:03:06] You know, so I don't understand it.

[01:03:09] Is there anything we didn't?

[01:03:13] We didn't.

[01:03:14] I mean, here's one question, actually, before we close up.

[01:03:17] How?

[01:03:17] I know this is an I know this must be an incredibly traumatic process.

[01:03:22] How do you balance the having to work through that trauma with also doing this advocacy

[01:03:28] without burning out or, you know, having to stop?

[01:03:34] How do you how do you manage that burden?

[01:03:38] It's helpful to be working on something.

[01:03:42] So when I'm working on like writing an article or reading the transcript or writing something,

[01:03:50] researching something, it's helpful.

[01:03:53] It's the times when I don't have something to work on that the sadness creeps in and

[01:03:58] I get really low, you know, so it's kind of been up and down, up and down.

[01:04:03] You know, yeah, it's you know, I've cried in the past three months, probably more than

[01:04:12] I have in the past decade.

[01:04:14] You know, it's it's been difficult, but satisfying at the same time that I'm doing something.

[01:04:23] Well, Christina, we just want to say we we very much admire the fierce advocacy you're

[01:04:29] bringing to this and your search for the truth and justice for Anita.

[01:04:35] And is there anything we didn't ask you about that you wanted to mention?

[01:04:39] No, I can't think of anything.

[01:04:42] All right.

[01:04:42] Well, thank you so much.

[01:04:43] We really appreciate you speaking with us.

[01:04:45] Yeah, it really.

[01:04:46] Thank you very much.

[01:04:47] I appreciate you covering this case.

[01:04:50] The second section of the episode comes from an interview we conducted later, more recently.

[01:04:55] Christina wanted to update us on some things.

[01:04:58] Christina, thank you so much for coming back and speaking with us again.

[01:05:02] Just to start out, can you give us a brief overview on what has happened in Anita's

[01:05:06] case since we last spoke in the winter?

[01:05:10] We had two more days of hearings in March, and then there was supposed to be another

[01:05:17] hearing in April and it was canceled.

[01:05:19] So from now, what's going to happen?

[01:05:23] I believe they said there's going to be written

[01:05:28] some submissions to the judge and then the judge will make a decision.

[01:05:31] After that, it goes automatically to the Court of Criminal Appeals and they make the final

[01:05:37] decision.

[01:05:38] And they said that could take a few months or a couple of years.

[01:05:43] Wow.

[01:05:44] So this could be a long road ahead for you in terms of learning what is going to come

[01:05:48] of this case?

[01:05:50] Yes.

[01:05:51] How does that make you feel?

[01:05:53] Oh, it's hard waiting.

[01:05:56] You know, we just want to figure out what's going to happen and what is to end, you know?

[01:06:02] Understandable.

[01:06:04] So obviously, we've kind of addressed this when we talked in the winter, but I know

[01:06:09] that there's been some contention with the District Attorney's Office from the beginning.

[01:06:14] And I was wondering if you could speak to that now that some months have passed.

[01:06:18] And I know when you talked to me before, you talked about how this started when you

[01:06:23] felt like they did not keep you at all in the loop about updates in Anita's case.

[01:06:30] Yes, they didn't notify any family.

[01:06:33] And when I asked them, they said, well, we didn't realize there was any family.

[01:06:38] We couldn't find any family.

[01:06:40] But we're registered with the state.

[01:06:41] A lot of her family members are registered with the state.

[01:06:44] We would get letters when Kazi was up for parole, things like that.

[01:06:48] And so they said, oh, well, the only family we could find was one of the witnesses who

[01:06:54] was a distant cousin.

[01:06:55] So we notified her.

[01:06:57] But they notified her as a witness.

[01:06:59] And they made that very clear.

[01:07:01] They didn't mention anything about family.

[01:07:04] You know?

[01:07:04] So and then another time they said, well, we couldn't notify you because we had to keep

[01:07:09] this quiet.

[01:07:10] There was a lot of confidential information.

[01:07:12] And so they keep giving different answers.

[01:07:16] You know, it's like, which is it?

[01:07:18] You know, it's like you're being given the runaround and you know it and they know it.

[01:07:24] It's frustrating.

[01:07:26] Have things at all thawed with the DA's office since we last talked?

[01:07:30] Oh, no, they got worse.

[01:07:32] At the first hearings, the first few hearings we had, they made it a point to approach me

[01:07:40] and say how sorry they were about everything.

[01:07:42] And how can we help you?

[01:07:44] Things like that.

[01:07:45] They actually even admitted that they hadn't handled this correctly and they apologized

[01:07:50] for it.

[01:07:52] And at that time, I told them I would like to hear an apology from DA Garza.

[01:07:57] I mentioned that several times.

[01:07:58] And of course, that has never come.

[01:08:01] But at the last two days of hearings, no, they, you know, I would approach them and

[01:08:08] and I asked one of them if I could speak to her and she said, no, I'm busy.

[01:08:14] You know, and then I asked a couple of the other ones why my phone calls weren't being

[01:08:19] returned, things like that.

[01:08:21] And they just said that they were very busy and they had a lot of family contact.

[01:08:27] And they all had kind of the same answer.

[01:08:29] So I believe that instructions were given at some point to brush me off, that they were

[01:08:36] done with me.

[01:08:37] You know, like when the hearing was canceled, they emailed everybody, like eight people.

[01:08:44] They emailed letting them know things like that.

[01:08:46] And they emailed me like three days later.

[01:08:49] And that's the second time that that's happened.

[01:08:51] And it seems very intentional.

[01:08:55] I'm curious in terms of your concerns that you've voiced in the past about the DA's

[01:09:02] office working with the Innocence Project.

[01:09:04] Can you speak more to those concerns and where those stand today?

[01:09:09] It seems obvious to me now that they were working together from the beginning.

[01:09:15] You know, they investigated together.

[01:09:17] We know that for a fact.

[01:09:19] They went and questioned witnesses together.

[01:09:21] They shared resources.

[01:09:23] They did everything together.

[01:09:24] And that screams agenda to me.

[01:09:29] You know, if you want to find out the facts, you know, Innocence Project is working on

[01:09:33] this.

[01:09:34] Why not do your own investigation before teaming up with them?

[01:09:39] You know, investigate it and come to your own conclusion.

[01:09:43] But investigating together, that just, it doesn't seem like it's the right way to handle

[01:09:52] a process like this.

[01:09:55] It doesn't seem on the up and up.

[01:09:57] It seems like a sham.

[01:10:00] And what about at the hearings in terms of, I know in the past you've expressed concern

[01:10:05] about them being somewhat one-sided because of that lack of an adversarial back and forth.

[01:10:10] Can you speak to that?

[01:10:13] Completely one-sided.

[01:10:14] The cross-examinations, for example, there wasn't any.

[01:10:20] You know, they're all softball questions.

[01:10:22] A lot of evidence being left out, completely left out.

[01:10:26] Anything pointing to Kazi's guilt is left out.

[01:10:30] Even some untruths.

[01:10:31] I can think of one example.

[01:10:33] They brought up the clothing that the police collected from Kazi and Harold.

[01:10:39] They brought that up and they showed pictures and everything.

[01:10:42] And of course, there was no blood on them or anything like that.

[01:10:45] And the witness was asked, I believe it was an investigator from the DA's office.

[01:10:50] She was asked, and the prosecution believes that these are the actual clothes that they

[01:10:55] wore the night of the murder.

[01:10:56] And she said, yes.

[01:10:58] Well, that's completely false.

[01:11:00] It's in the trial transcript.

[01:11:02] The prosecution made a point of mentioning that in their closing arguments, that, you

[01:11:08] know, of course a murderer is not going to keep their bloody clothes for us to collect.

[01:11:12] I mean, so it was a complete lie.

[01:11:14] They left out, you know, that Kazi showed up to the scene saying, oh, I didn't kill

[01:11:18] her, but I found the body.

[01:11:20] You know, they left out that he changed his story eight or nine times.

[01:11:25] They're leaving out anything that proves Kazi's guilt or at least points to his guilt

[01:11:34] to the point where, like, you know, I'd like to, you know, felt like standing up and saying,

[01:11:39] well, wait, what about this?

[01:11:40] What about this?

[01:11:41] What about this?

[01:11:42] About 100 times during these hearings.

[01:11:44] You know, that's how blatant it's been.

[01:11:47] Do you have a sense on why you may have been left out of the loop on this?

[01:11:53] I mean, have some family members been included and you haven't been?

[01:11:58] I mean, what's the situation and what do you think is going on there?

[01:12:02] Now, yes.

[01:12:03] But at the beginning, there was no family notified, none.

[01:12:06] And I believe that was because they wanted this to go as smoothly as possible with no

[01:12:11] pushback.

[01:12:12] You know, they wanted their story, their narrative that this poor, wrongly convicted man, you

[01:12:18] know, is seeking exoneration.

[01:12:20] And they didn't want the other side of the story told.

[01:12:24] Now, lately, the past couple of months, yeah, they were sending like updates about the case

[01:12:28] and stuff like that.

[01:12:29] And they made it a point to send about eight people, you know, an email altogether and

[01:12:36] leave me out.

[01:12:37] And then hours later or days later, then email me.

[01:12:41] That just seems so intentional and so ridiculous, you know?

[01:12:48] I wanted to ask about something I know in the past.

[01:12:51] Well, you've talked about how at these hearings, you feel that it's a one sided sort of thing

[01:12:58] where only really defense talking points are coming up.

[01:13:03] I'm curious, can you speak to in terms of how Mr. Causey himself is being portrayed,

[01:13:10] how that kind of factors in?

[01:13:12] I know my understanding is that this man did not have a felony record at all.

[01:13:18] What are your thoughts on that?

[01:13:20] Yeah, and he's been completely silent.

[01:13:22] He's not been interviewed and he's not been on the stand, which is kind of strange.

[01:13:27] You know, I would think he would get on the stand.

[01:13:29] But yeah, they're trying to portray him as this kind, gentle man who was wrongfully

[01:13:34] convicted.

[01:13:35] But they left out that, you know, there was an incident in the jail, I believe before

[01:13:41] his trial.

[01:13:41] Yes, before his trial, where a corrections officer observed him roughing around his

[01:13:46] girlfriend, who is now his wife.

[01:13:49] And their visit was terminated.

[01:13:50] He grabbed her wrist and bent it and grabbed her face.

[01:13:54] And so they terminated the visit.

[01:13:57] None of that has been mentioned.

[01:13:59] And also in the trial, an officer from the repeat offender program, the street crimes

[01:14:05] and gang unit testified.

[01:14:06] And they asked him, you know, if his opinion that cause his character for being a peaceful

[01:14:11] and law abiding citizen was good or bad.

[01:14:14] And he answered, it's bad.

[01:14:17] You know, so he's not the angel that they're trying to portray.

[01:14:22] Do we have any sense of what that officer meant by that?

[01:14:26] Because if he has no felony record, I'm just curious, like, what would his reputation be?

[01:14:31] In my opinion, I'm assuming that he was a known crack user, maybe dealer.

[01:14:37] I don't know.

[01:14:38] I mean, in his confession, he admitted that they were buying crack and using it all night

[01:14:43] long.

[01:14:45] And apparently this police officer, you know, he knew about it, knew his reputation.

[01:14:52] It's curious that the defense attorney didn't question him at all.

[01:14:56] You mentioned drug use, and that's something that sort of is at the center of the case.

[01:15:05] Originally, that's what causes confession centered upon that this was a drug deal gone

[01:15:11] wrong where Anita was killed.

[01:15:13] And one thing that the that causes team has argued since is that Anita was not a drug user

[01:15:22] and that the prosecution's theory in 92 kind of centered around that.

[01:15:28] Can you speak to your thoughts on this and sort of knowing Anita, knowing the situation,

[01:15:33] what you think about?

[01:15:34] Yes, she wasn't a drug user.

[01:15:37] I would say she didn't even know what crack cocaine was.

[01:15:39] We didn't know what it was back then.

[01:15:41] You know, she was not a drug user.

[01:15:45] Basically, the headlines in the papers, the media, are all about Anita.

[01:15:51] Portrayed as a drug deal gone bad.

[01:15:53] You know, some of the headlines were just that drug deal gone bad or student was buying drugs,

[01:15:59] you know, when she was killed, something like that.

[01:16:02] But the prosecution never portrayed her as a drug user.

[01:16:05] That's just completely false.

[01:16:07] I mean, that's a lie.

[01:16:09] And the DA's office and the Innocence Project is peddling that story because it benefits

[01:16:14] them.

[01:16:15] See, if you take the drugs out of the equation, then Cosby and Harrell are not involved at all

[01:16:22] because there was no drug deal.

[01:16:24] But the prosecution's theory was that Kevin Harris went to make a drug deal and something

[01:16:31] went wrong and he fled and left her there.

[01:16:36] You know, they made it a point at the trial to say that she had no money on her and she

[01:16:41] would not know how to buy cocaine or crack or anything like that.

[01:16:46] So that's just completely a false story that they're trying to use for their own benefit.

[01:16:51] It's ridiculous.

[01:16:53] You know, we were there when this murder happened, obviously.

[01:16:56] We were there when the trial happened.

[01:16:58] The family talked to the prosecution.

[01:17:00] We know exactly what their theory was.

[01:17:03] So for them to say that that was the theory, that's just a lie.

[01:17:08] And one of many lies that have been happening since this case started.

[01:17:13] And that's the reason why I'm so distrustful of the DA's office at this point, because

[01:17:20] things like this keep happening.

[01:17:22] They even put it out in the media that that was the original prosecution's theory and

[01:17:27] that they were apologizing for it and it was wrong and they know that now.

[01:17:32] And I responded that that apology is a slap in the face and it's completely false.

[01:17:38] We know they're reading documents and they're picking out what they want.

[01:17:43] We were there.

[01:17:43] We know what happened.

[01:17:44] We know what the theory was.

[01:17:46] So that's a lie.

[01:17:47] And it angered me.

[01:17:49] It still angers me thinking about it.

[01:17:51] You know, it's just completely wrong.

[01:17:55] And I don't know if they know it or I believe they do know it.

[01:17:58] And they're just being sneaky and trying to, you know, fabricate a story.

[01:18:03] But the trial transcript backs up what I'm saying and the original prosecutors back up

[01:18:09] what I'm saying.

[01:18:12] You mentioned Kevin Harris.

[01:18:14] And of course, he not only is a possible witness in this case, but he's also the alternate

[01:18:19] suspect for the defense now.

[01:18:22] And I wanted to ask specifically, did he have an accounting back in the day for how he and

[01:18:30] Anita eventually got separated?

[01:18:32] How she didn't get home and he did.

[01:18:34] Did he explain that ever?

[01:18:37] He said that she dropped him off at his truck at 3 a.m.

[01:18:42] and he never saw her again.

[01:18:44] Oh, that she said she was going to go buy crack, which is ridiculous.

[01:18:49] So he was lying back then.

[01:18:51] That was always known.

[01:18:54] The prosecution called him a liar and a coward at the trial.

[01:18:58] That was always known that he was lying.

[01:19:01] So, I mean, he was very involved in her murder.

[01:19:05] I mean, he was responsible.

[01:19:06] He took her there, you know, and his DNA and fingerprints were found, which is not surprising

[01:19:13] because they were together all evening.

[01:19:15] But until they're trying to say that he is the actual killer.

[01:19:19] My stance is that, yeah, he appears to be a horrible guy.

[01:19:23] Well, he is, you know, just from that night alone.

[01:19:27] But that doesn't make the other two innocent.

[01:19:31] And he also does have a history of violence against women, is my understanding, too.

[01:19:36] Since then, I don't know about prior to then, but since then, yes, he does.

[01:19:41] Right.

[01:19:42] And he also asked a co-worker to lie for him, you know, back then.

[01:19:46] So, you know, I'm no defender of Kevin Harris at all.

[01:19:52] You know, I hold him responsible as much as the other two probably.

[01:19:56] You know, he took her there.

[01:19:58] I mean, heck, he could have been involved in killing her, you know, with them.

[01:20:02] We don't know.

[01:20:03] But the theory was that he took her there, tried to make some sort of drug deal

[01:20:08] and then fled when things went bad and left her there to be killed.

[01:20:15] And then one thing that sort of disputes the soul killer theory about, you know,

[01:20:22] like one person like Kevin Harris doing it alone rather than

[01:20:26] two people like Bobby Harrell and Andre Causey doing it is that

[01:20:31] can you talk about the ear witness to two male voices heard that night?

[01:20:38] Yes. The judge mentioned that at the last hearing,

[01:20:41] she said that she had a lot of concerns.

[01:20:43] This was right after the hearing finished.

[01:20:46] And she said one of her concerns was that there were two male voices heard by a neighbor.

[01:20:53] And that right there, I mean, that's everything to me.

[01:20:59] I mean, that's and she had some other concerns, too.

[01:21:03] She mentioned the pre-trial hearing that, you know,

[01:21:05] Causey was asked if he was coerced and he said no.

[01:21:10] And then months later, after Polanco was in the news,

[01:21:14] he changed his defense to I was coerced.

[01:21:17] I was threatened. That's why I confessed.

[01:21:20] It seems like the judge had some of the same concerns that I've had this whole time.

[01:21:26] So where do you where do you think the judge left off on all this by the end of these hearings?

[01:21:32] He said that she mentioned those couple of things.

[01:21:35] I can't remember what else she mentioned,

[01:21:37] but she said that she needed to hear more from them.

[01:21:39] From the Innocence Project.

[01:21:41] And so that's why it was such a shock that the final hearing was completely canceled.

[01:21:49] That was so surprising.

[01:21:51] And another thing is that we never heard from Bobby Harrell because he's innocent, right?

[01:21:55] Causey and Harrell were together that night, but they didn't they didn't murder anybody.

[01:21:59] So Harrell is his his alibi witness.

[01:22:02] Why didn't we hear from him?

[01:22:03] Shouldn't he have been the star witness at these hearings?

[01:22:07] At these hearings, he's his alibi, but he didn't testify.

[01:22:11] They didn't call him.

[01:22:12] I wonder I wonder why that is.

[01:22:14] Well, to me, the reason is that his story would have been as full of holes as Causey's was.

[01:22:20] The night he was questioned when he changed his story eight or nine times.

[01:22:24] That's why he wasn't called.

[01:22:26] You wouldn't help him.

[01:22:27] He would hurt him.

[01:22:30] Let's talk about that confession.

[01:22:32] So there's been discussion that it was false or coerced.

[01:22:38] What are your thoughts on that at this point, as far as the confession possibly being flawed in some way?

[01:22:45] Well, his first defense was that he didn't know what he was signing.

[01:22:50] So he never gave that confession.

[01:22:53] It was fabricated by the police and he just signed it because they told him he was signing a form

[01:22:58] that he hadn't been beaten or something like that.

[01:23:01] So that was his defense, that he never gave any confession.

[01:23:05] Later on, his defense changed that he was coerced and that's why he confessed.

[01:23:13] So which is it?

[01:23:14] They've never made it clear.

[01:23:16] I think he's still going on both of those and both of those can't be true.

[01:23:22] It doesn't make sense.

[01:23:23] So which is it?

[01:23:28] And then are there other elements to Causey's confession that sort of

[01:23:32] back up the confession, like evidence to corroborate the confession?

[01:23:37] The belt buckle, he mentioned that Bobby Harrell struck her with a belt buckle several times

[01:23:44] and they were questioning him Sunday night, Sunday, August the 11th.

[01:23:49] Well, the medical examiner's report didn't come out until the next day.

[01:23:53] So it's my understanding that the police were not aware of the marks that were made by belt buckles

[01:24:00] and the medical examiner confirmed that the following day.

[01:24:04] So Causey already had that information.

[01:24:07] Causey's confession put most of the blame on Harrell, is that right?

[01:24:14] Yes.

[01:24:15] Yes, he said that he walked outside and he saw a black guy running off

[01:24:21] and then Harrell arguing with a girl and that Harrell said something about a drug deal.

[01:24:28] She cheated him for some drugs or something.

[01:24:30] So Causey's the one who chased her, knocked her down, choked her,

[01:24:37] and then Harrell hit her with a belt buckle and then smashed her in the head with a concrete

[01:24:43] rain diverter.

[01:24:48] So he put most of the blame on Harrell.

[01:24:53] An interesting thing came up at this hearing on March 28th.

[01:24:57] An officer at the jail made a statement.

[01:24:59] He's saying, I was with him, but I didn't kill nobody.

[01:25:03] I'm getting locked up for something I didn't do.

[01:25:07] That right there, I was with him, but I didn't kill nobody.

[01:25:10] Well, who's the him?

[01:25:11] The him has to be Bobby Harrell because he apparently didn't know Kevin Harris or that's

[01:25:17] what they claim.

[01:25:19] So to me, that statement, I was with him, but I didn't kill nobody.

[01:25:24] That corroborates his confession right there.

[01:25:26] He was with him and he helped, but Harrell's the one who did it.

[01:25:29] According to Causey.

[01:25:31] And I couldn't believe that the Innocence Project brought out that statement, but to

[01:25:37] me, that's just more evidence on Causey piling up, piling up, piling up.

[01:25:42] To me, that statement is very damning.

[01:25:47] We talked about what happens next, but essentially, what will the judge be ruling on at this point?

[01:25:52] Once she gets back and says, here's my ruling, what exactly is she determining?

[01:25:57] Do we know?

[01:25:58] No, I'm pretty confused on that.

[01:26:00] And the DA's office doesn't return my calls these days.

[01:26:04] Otherwise I'd call them and ask them.

[01:26:06] But yeah, I'm pretty confused because there were secret hearings before these public

[01:26:11] hearings started where they already signed off on aspects of his exoneration.

[01:26:18] They signed off on a Brady violation and I don't recall what else.

[01:26:22] But so I don't know if she's already exonerated him and this is these hearings are for actual

[01:26:29] innocence or for a new trial.

[01:26:33] I'm not sure.

[01:26:34] But after she rules, then it will go to the Court of Criminal Appeals.

[01:26:39] But yeah, as far as what the judge exactly is going to rule on, I'm just not sure.

[01:26:46] It sort of sounds like there won't be a new trial because it sounds like

[01:26:49] DA Garza's office is saying that they believe he's factually innocent as well.

[01:26:54] So I imagine it's more on the exoneration track.

[01:26:57] But yeah, it is interesting to know what exactly is going to be determined here.

[01:27:02] It sounds like exoneration though.

[01:27:04] Yeah, they're definitely not going to.

[01:27:05] If a new trial is ordered, they're not going to retry him.

[01:27:08] There's no way.

[01:27:11] And I'm curious, we've talked about this in the past.

[01:27:17] I know since we talked, this has gotten even more attention.

[01:27:23] There's been discussion about politics being injected into the situation.

[01:27:30] And I'm curious, what are your thoughts on that?

[01:27:35] Yeah, I've never considered this political.

[01:27:40] I'm a liberal Democrat and so is DA Garza.

[01:27:43] So to me, this was never about politics per se.

[01:27:48] It kind of became that, but not really because I've been the one who's been speaking out on

[01:27:54] this case.

[01:27:55] You know, there's been no local politicians or police unions or anything like that.

[01:28:00] It's been me.

[01:28:02] And I don't live in Travis County and I don't vote there.

[01:28:05] But throughout this case, I've learned a lot about the politics of Travis County and about

[01:28:12] DA Garza's history when it comes to criminals and when it comes to crime victims and their

[01:28:18] families.

[01:28:19] And so I've seen a lot of that.

[01:28:22] So in a sense, it's political because he's a political figure.

[01:28:26] But the pushback in this case has been from me and pretty much nobody else.

[01:28:32] I believe the DA's office and maybe the Innocence Project, they don't like that Terry Keel,

[01:28:39] the original prosecutor and a Republican, represented me.

[01:28:44] But really, his politics have nothing to do with this.

[01:28:47] You know, we contacted him because we didn't know what was going on and the DA's office

[01:28:52] wouldn't help us.

[01:28:54] And he started helping us.

[01:28:55] He got us a trial transcript.

[01:28:57] You know, he got us documents that we needed.

[01:28:59] But other than that, his politics or anything like that has not had anything to do with

[01:29:06] this case.

[01:29:09] Has this situation impacted your own goals and sort of ideas for the future in terms

[01:29:15] of getting involved with advocacy around crime victims?

[01:29:20] Yes, quite a bit.

[01:29:23] In the past few months, you know, I get random messages from people like I got a message

[01:29:30] from someone whose friend was murdered and their family's going through it with the DA's

[01:29:35] office currently, where the DA's office is postponing hearings and not letting the family

[01:29:40] know and not letting them know what's happening, things like that.

[01:29:44] And I didn't know what to tell him, you know, except, well, can they get a lawyer?

[01:29:48] And you shouldn't have to get a lawyer to deal with the DA's office.

[01:29:53] You know, when your family member is murdered, the DA's office should be helping you.

[01:29:58] They have a department called Victim Services.

[01:30:01] They should be helping you.

[01:30:03] And apparently they're not.

[01:30:05] I mean, there's a history.

[01:30:06] I've met so many families.

[01:30:08] And so in February, we created a group and it's called Travis County Crime Victims Rise

[01:30:16] Against DA Jose P. Garza and Rise for Resilient and Seeking Empowerment for Justice Denied

[01:30:24] by DA Garza.

[01:30:26] And there's so many families who have been through similar experiences as I have or even

[01:30:31] worse.

[01:30:32] For example, the DA's office making plea deals, signing off on these murderers and not letting

[01:30:39] the victim's family even know about it until after the paperwork was signed.

[01:30:44] And that's just so wrong and so uncaring.

[01:30:47] He has a history.

[01:30:48] His office has a clear documented history of this and it's mind blowing.

[01:30:54] And so I'm looking into taking online courses to become a victim's advocate, learning as

[01:31:01] much as I can so that I can help others who are going through this or future people who

[01:31:07] would be going through similar experiences, especially with their office.

[01:31:13] Do you feel that if this was handled differently or things played out differently, that you

[01:31:18] would not have been so upset as long as you had been informed about what was going on?

[01:31:26] If the process had been different, do you see a different outcome for you even if the

[01:31:31] outcome was still the same around the DA feeling that Ozzy was innocent?

[01:31:37] Absolutely.

[01:31:39] If they had contacted the family or even once after I contacted them and let them know

[01:31:46] that we existed, if they had kept us informed, let us know the evidence, not been so adversarial

[01:31:55] towards me in particular, things could have been so different.

[01:32:00] Had they explained to me why they thought he was innocent?

[01:32:05] Had they done a thorough investigation?

[01:32:08] But every time I talked to them, they hadn't.

[01:32:10] Like I asked, what did the police officer say?

[01:32:13] They hadn't even bothered to contact them.

[01:32:15] Anybody who was present that night, he confessed.

[01:32:19] So as more time went on, it became so obvious to me that they had an agenda already.

[01:32:26] And that's what caused all this.

[01:32:30] They had an agenda to exonerate him from the very beginning and did their investigation

[01:32:36] with that in mind.

[01:32:38] And that's just so wrong.

[01:32:39] That's not justice.

[01:32:41] If things had been handled correctly, the investigation, everything contacting us,

[01:32:46] then I could have a difference of opinion.

[01:32:48] Like I believe he's guilty, but you're doing your job and you're doing what you believe

[01:32:52] for justice.

[01:32:54] I have no qualms with I would have no qualms with them if that's what had happened.

[01:33:00] If you got information that led you to change your mind and conclude that

[01:33:04] Cozzi was factually innocent, what would you say to him?

[01:33:07] How would you feel?

[01:33:10] I would say that I was wrong and I would say it as publicly as I said everything else.

[01:33:17] But short of Harris confessing, I don't know.

[01:33:23] I don't know.

[01:33:24] There's too many questions that I would need answers to.

[01:33:28] But yeah, I would be the first one to say I was, I'm interested in justice.

[01:33:33] I'm not interested in an innocent man being wrongfully convicted and serving all those

[01:33:39] years in prison for something he didn't do.

[01:33:42] That would be a travesty all the way around.

[01:33:46] If I became convinced he was innocent, you'd see a complete turnaround in me.

[01:33:53] And I would do it publicly as publicly as I've done everything else.

[01:33:58] At this at this point, it sounds like the relationship between you and the DA's office

[01:34:01] is really broken down quite a bit.

[01:34:04] But if there was an opportunity to sit down with either the DA's office or the Innocence

[01:34:10] Project of Texas and sort of discuss the facts or ask questions, is that something that you

[01:34:15] would be open to?

[01:34:17] Oh, yeah.

[01:34:18] I've wanted that for a long time.

[01:34:21] We were scheduled to meet with the DA's office.

[01:34:25] Two or three of them were going to come to where I live.

[01:34:28] This was in either late October, early November.

[01:34:32] And once they found out, once I asked, can my attorney be present?

[01:34:36] And they found out who my attorney was.

[01:34:38] They canceled the meeting.

[01:34:40] And we said, well, he won't be present then.

[01:34:44] We'll still meet.

[01:34:45] And they refused.

[01:34:47] The DA's office, I would meet with them.

[01:34:49] But they have lied to me so many times, documented lies.

[01:34:53] I have the documentation throughout this.

[01:34:55] But even then, I would meet with them.

[01:34:57] The Innocence Project, I approached Mike Ware for the first time at the last hearing.

[01:35:03] And I introduced myself.

[01:35:04] And we spoke for a couple of minutes.

[01:35:06] And I told him I'd be open to talking to him.

[01:35:08] And he said he would like that.

[01:35:09] And I gave him my number.

[01:35:11] And I really hope he calls me because I would like to ask him what makes him believe that

[01:35:19] Kazi is innocent and bring up all the things that I believe point to his guilt and see

[01:35:25] what the answers are.

[01:35:27] Because none of that is being brought up in these hearings.

[01:35:30] None of the questions are being brought up in these hearings.

[01:35:34] These hearings are all very clean, prepared.

[01:35:37] You know, they're asking what they want.

[01:35:38] They're getting the answers they want.

[01:35:40] It's all prepared.

[01:35:42] But I would be open to meeting with both of them.

[01:35:45] In fact, this should have happened months ago before all the hearings started.

[01:35:49] And maybe things would be very different.

[01:35:51] LESLIE KENDRICK Is there anything else about the case that

[01:35:56] you wanted to talk about?

[01:35:57] And then I want to ask you more about Anita and sort of what was lost by all of this and

[01:36:01] kind of get back to the heart of this story, which is, of course, your cousin.

[01:36:06] But before we get to that, is there anything else about the case that we didn't cover that

[01:36:09] you wanted to mention?

[01:36:10] LESLIE KENDRICK Just how one-sided it's all been.

[01:36:15] You know, and I've said it before, but it's just to me, it's just been a sham, a farce.

[01:36:24] You know, a lot of the facts, the important facts are just not being brought out.

[01:36:29] And when you don't have the adversarial process, you know, you're not getting justice.

[01:36:35] You're getting one side.

[01:36:38] And that is just in a case like this.

[01:36:41] Well, in any case, everything's just being left out.

[01:36:45] Like I said, they're asking what they want.

[01:36:47] They're leaving out what they want.

[01:36:50] And that's the main thing.

[01:36:53] And it's so dishonest.

[01:36:56] And if you're looking for truth, bring out all of it, the good, the bad, you know.

[01:37:01] And then let's decide, let the judge decide when she hears everything, not just the stuff

[01:37:07] that you picked out.

[01:37:08] LESLIE KENDRICK So I wanted to ask you about Anita.

[01:37:13] Are there any memories that you want to share about her?

[01:37:16] Any sort of thoughts that come to your mind now when you think about her?

[01:37:21] Just I was wondering if we can kind of get to know her a little bit more.

[01:37:26] ANITA Yeah, it's good that you brought that up because

[01:37:30] it's a reminder that this isn't just a case.

[01:37:34] You know, there was a person, we lost her and she lost everything.

[01:37:38] She was a kid.

[01:37:39] She was 21 years old.

[01:37:41] Slumber parties at our grandmother's house, you know, playing crazy eights, playing go fish,

[01:37:47] you know, going to the beach every summer for a week.

[01:37:51] Just laughing, laughing, laughing.

[01:37:55] You know, our grandmother yelling at us, you know, at midnight to go to sleep, you know,

[01:38:01] because we're giggling in the next bedroom, sharing secrets.

[01:38:06] I mean, she was my first best friend.

[01:38:09] I feel like she would have been my best friend forever.

[01:38:12] But they killed her, you know.

[01:38:16] And it's just a horrible, horrible thing.

[01:38:24] Seeing my grandmother crying and confused.

[01:38:28] Her parents, seeing her parents devastated for the rest of their lives.

[01:38:33] All of us.

[01:38:34] It's just she was a great kid.

[01:38:37] She was hilarious.

[01:38:40] You know, just funny.

[01:38:42] She was the best.

[01:38:44] And I miss her every day.

[01:38:47] And I miss the kids she might have had or what would she look like as a 55 year old?

[01:38:54] Because we all you know, if she came back now, she would say, what the hell?

[01:38:57] Y'all got old.

[01:38:58] You know, that's her personality.

[01:38:59] That's the way she was.

[01:39:01] And she missed everything.

[01:39:04] Everything.

[01:39:05] It's just horrible.

[01:39:07] It's horrible.

[01:39:10] Christina, I am just so sorry for what you and your whole family have lost here.

[01:39:14] Anita really does sound like a special person.

[01:39:17] And I my heart goes out to you all.

[01:39:20] And I'm just so sorry.

[01:39:22] Thank you.

[01:39:22] I appreciate it.

[01:39:26] Well, thank you again.

[01:39:27] We I know it's not.

[01:39:28] I'm sure it's hard to talk about this despite all the advocacy you've done around it.

[01:39:34] But we really appreciate you taking the time.

[01:39:37] I appreciate you covering this case.

[01:39:39] Thanks.

[01:39:44] We wish to sincerely thank Christina.

[01:39:47] We very much appreciate her sharing her experience with us.

[01:39:49] And we understand this is not an easy road.

[01:39:52] Again, in tomorrow's episode, we will hear from the Innocence Project of Texas,

[01:39:57] the group representing Mr. Kazi.

[01:39:59] Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet.

[01:40:02] If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover,

[01:40:05] please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com.

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[01:40:44] who composed the music for The Murder Sheet.

[01:40:46] And who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

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