The Delphi Murders: First Person: Becky Patty

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[00:02:06] Libby German and Abby Williams were real people, real girls. They lived. They went to school. They did sports. They had friends. They had families. They faced the typical stressors that teenagers face. They had dreams about what they were going to do with their lives. Richard Allen made his series of heinous choices on February 13th, 2017, and he took away their chance to grow up.

[00:02:31] Sometimes when I see the internet abuzz over some far-fetched theory or people salivating over the latest gruesome details, I just want to pause. I want to ask people to consider for a moment that these girls were real people and their families are still reeling over their deaths. I want to ask people, how would you feel if they were members of your family? Can we grapple with the tragedy for a moment? Can we show some basic human compassion to those who lost these girls?

[00:02:59] Because sometimes I feel like that's been lacking in a lot of discussions I've seen about this case. For today's first-person interview, we will speak to someone close to the victims. We will speak to Libby's grandmother and guardian, Becky Patty. Becky and her family, along with Abby's family, went through the unimaginable. In the years since 2017, Becky took to social media and the true crime world to raise awareness about the Delphi case. At trial, she testified.

[00:03:29] At the sentencing hearing, she looked right at Richard Allen and told him what his crime had done to their family. This interview took place a little while ago, before the birth of Becky's newest grandchild. Congratulations to the entire family on that, by the way. We'll focus on who Libby was, her personality, her interests, the memories Becky has of her, how this precocious girl is still at the heart of their family.

[00:03:54] The conversation will get into the cruelty that these families can experience at the hands of internet mobs and disingenuous creators who seek to cast them in the role of villains to fit their conspiratorial narrative. Hopefully, this talk can give some insight to other families of murder victims who find themselves in this terrible situation. Now that the gag order has been lifted, Becky and others close to the case are free to speak about their experiences. This episode is part of our first-person interview series.

[00:04:23] We seek to interview as many of the individuals with first-hand experience in the Delphi case as possible. If you had a direct role in the case and are open to talking to us, email us at murdersheet at gmail.com. This is part of our ongoing efforts to report on the Delphi murders. For many years, we have not gotten the chance to hear directly from some of the principal figures in the case. That all changes now. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist. And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[00:04:52] And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet. And this is the Delphi murders. First person, Becky Patti.

[00:05:49] I guess to start off, Becky, how are you doing? Oh, I'm doing fine. We're beginning to start our new life, I guess you could call it. That we don't have to focus around this case 24-7. We're being able to start focusing on the family again. With that, a new little addition that will definitely take up a lot of our time.

[00:06:20] So we are starting the new chapter in our life, I do believe. That is wonderful. And also, congratulations. That is amazing. And I hope you all are doing okay with that transition. I imagine aspects of it can be difficult. You know, you can be right in the middle of something just wonderful happening. And then you realize, Libby's not here to share that. That comes out of the blue.

[00:06:49] You don't even think about it. You're going to think something like that. It's just there. While it's very sad, we feel that we're still sharing with her, I guess. That's how we deal with it. We just stop and think, okay, in our own way, we're still sharing with her. And I want to ask you a bit about that. Is, you know, how do you all kind of keep Libby in the front of your minds every day when you're going through that and kind of keep her a part of your family's life,

[00:07:18] even though she's not here? Well, if you would listen to us talk to each other and stuff, it's almost like she's still here. Maybe it's just hard. Maybe none of us just wants to accept that her gone is permanent. So we've kind of put her into where she's still part of us. We just don't see her. So we don't, we don't, we just, we still include her in everything.

[00:07:47] And whenever we do something, we discuss how Libby would do this, how this would, with her included. We still think of her when we plan. Like vacations, family parties, things like that? Everything. Everything. She should have been with one of the kids that aren't here. She's just still included. We'll never forget her. She'll never be far from the front of our minds. When you lose a loved one like that,

[00:08:17] you just don't. They just, they will always, they will always remain there. And just from what we've gotten to know about Libby over time, she just seems like a truly special and extraordinary young person. She truly was. And I know people brag about their kids and think that their kid was awesome. But even trying to be an unbiased person, she was special.

[00:08:47] And I really realized that after, and it's unfortunate that this all comes out after something tragic happened. Because I had several of her teachers and people that just knew her, that would come to me and tell me stories or say, Becky, Libby was wonderful. And the little things that she would do even for her teachers and stuff.

[00:09:16] And she just did. She just did little things and they would just send me some of the things that she did. One teacher was cleaning out his desk because he was leaving. And he sent me a screenshot of something she had written to him. And she said, you know, she always shows up when we meet her. So she had this impact on people even after she was gone. So that has shown me when they have come to me and said things,

[00:09:46] the type of person she was. And it's really come out to me in particular, one thing that kind of sticks out to me is just how, I don't know, mature, insightful, but also very intelligent she was. I think everyone always hears about she was in all these sports, but she was really excelling at the academics, it sounds like. Right. But as a matter of fact, she was in advanced classes.

[00:10:12] She was so used to not having to study that when they finally put her in a class, especially math, because she was a whiz at math. And they finally got up there far enough that she didn't understand one thing. And it was very hard for her to learn how to study because everything had always come so easy. And she struggled for a little bit. She was not happy.

[00:10:39] And I said, Libby, this is how it is for the rest of us. This is what we have always had. You just understood. You're just exceptionally smart. So welcome to our world. I, you know, I was glad for that to have happened because Garrick was the same way in school. Very, very intelligent. And she had a very hard time and ended up dropping out

[00:11:08] because of not knowing how to study. So I am, I'm glad that they did what they did for her in school to teach her how to be able to do that. And she looked at life in general different. How so? Well, because she was so mature. I mean, she was logical. She looked at things very logically. And you don't do that at 13.

[00:11:36] She had just turned 14. But really, she was still 13, most of it. Most 13-year-olds just aren't as logical as what she was. And she used to come in and she'd say, you know, I should just be a psychiatrist. All of my friends come to me to help them solve their problems. But that's because she was rational. And she would talk things out with the other kids. So, and that's just how she looked at life. I love that.

[00:12:06] And yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't normally associate adolescence with the word logical, but it's what's come out about her is that she really was able to kind of provide those insights beyond her years. Yes, she was. She was. And I think that she was structured, no matter what she would have done in life, had it been law enforcement,

[00:12:30] had it been going into science to research illnesses and diseases, or had it been just being a teacher or something with children, whatever she would have decided to do, I think she would have done it with great passion and would have made a difference in this world. So that's just how she was. You know, one thing that came up a lot, you know, at trial, especially in Nicholas McClellan's closing, was just that, you know, one of her, you know, when you're that age,

[00:12:59] you have so many possibilities, you're looking at different possible careers and passions. One thing that came up for her was, you know, helping police solve crimes, perhaps as a forensic scientist or something. Do you know where that came out of, where that interest was sort of born out of? Well, that was, she loved crime sharks. We loved to sit there and we would all try to figure out, okay, who did it? She loved trying to solve a mystery. And that's kind of what solving crime is,

[00:13:29] is just solving a mystery. And she was good at it. And she loved digging in, digging into things. Just like I had stated before that she took a mini med class at Purdue. It was on Super Saturdays. And she loved it. They dissected things and looked into the inside stuff. And she loved it.

[00:13:59] That was kind of, and she was probably in third or fourth grade, maybe at that time. And that was when she said, I want to do this. I want to do this and help stop crying. So she developed that passion early on. That is awesome. Did she have any favorite shows? I'm just curious. Or do you remember any? I cannot, for the life of me, I cannot remember the name of it. I can, the actress had reddish hair.

[00:14:28] It was long. And in it, she was a surgeon that was in a wreck. And she could no longer do surgery. So she ended up doing the autopsies. And she worked with the FBI guys and helped themselves crying. And she loved that. We would record that. But we were to record several of them. You know, CSI. She liked CSI. And we would binge watch them. And we would, we would crawl in bed and get popcorn

[00:14:57] and binge watch all of the crime shows that we recorded for the week. But she just loved watching them. That sounds super cozy and nice. It was. It was, that was like our, that was what we considered it our family night. And we did it every week. I'm curious, you know, one thing that also struck me about Libby, just again, hearing, hearing people who knew her talk about her, was, she seemed to be very gregarious. Like she had that personality where she was going to,

[00:15:27] you know, be friendly and outgoing. Is that, is that fair to say? Oh yeah. Yeah. she would, if she saw somebody sitting alone over the corner, she would talk to them. If somebody was being bullied, she would stick up for them. She was always for the underdog. She, she was a protector. She, she truly was. And I, I told somebody the other day, I just ran across one of her papers.

[00:15:57] It came up, I had posted it at one time. I don't remember when. And it came up on my time hop. And I reread it about where she was talking about. She wished people wouldn't judge people on just their look. Like even at that age, when, when everyone's obsessed about that, she's like thinking about things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and she was a bigger built girl. You know, she was stocky.

[00:16:27] She wasn't one of those teeny teeny little things. And so she knew firsthand she'd been on the other end. When people would make fun of people. So she understood it. She would just stick up for them. It sounds like that was born out of some empathy where she could understand where people might not fit in or they might be teased. So she's basically, instead of letting that get to her, she's like, I'm going to stick up for other people. That's exactly what she would do. That's awesome.

[00:16:56] She just sounds like a great kid. And I just want people to understand that. Yes, she was. She's greatly missed in the world, lost out on a great person. Yeah, absolutely. It is just such a tragedy. And the more we learn about Libby and Abby, just the more upsetting it is. I wanted to ask you though,

[00:17:26] since this tragedy happened all those years ago, you've come to know a variety of people in law enforcement. Can you tell us about them and how you view the law enforcement officers who worked on this case? You know, before this happened, we were happily living life in our own little bubble. Never had much, never had a lot of interaction with law enforcement.

[00:17:56] So, I, I couldn't say much about how they were, but once this happened, we came to know some very well. We worked with many of them. I can say that everyone that we have come in contact with were very professional. And,

[00:18:25] we could tell they were working very hard. And the ones that were in the main core of the investigators, we came to know very well. And, they, they lived this case. You could tell it was personal with them. And they were never going to give up. I have so much respect for them. Because even when there was rabbit hole after rabbit hole, and, and different,

[00:18:53] different directions that they had to go, they continued. And even when it didn't look very promising here and there, it got very slow. And, to us, it didn't seem like anything was going on. They didn't, they didn't give up. If, if, if things, if things weren't going, they would go back to the beginning and, and go back and start over. And, to see if they missed something. So, they never slowed down. At all. They just,

[00:19:23] they just didn't. And, we were very fortunate to have a team work together as well as this team did. And, when we would, when we would start getting down, they would be the ones that propped us up and kept, gave us hope. They, they really did. They helped a lot in giving us hope. You talk about how they kept on working, even in the darker moments, when maybe there were some concerns,

[00:19:52] there wouldn't be an arrest, and there wouldn't be a conviction. And, I wonder, were there ever any times, over these last, uh, eight years now, where you wondered if, a conviction would ever happen? First off, we wouldn't allow ourselves to go there. Plus, through all this, at different places that we have been, we have met, several families that are,

[00:20:20] walking the same walk we were walking. And, there were several of them, that had been walking this walk, for a long time. And, in talking to them, and listening to them, I realized, if, if these people, after all these years, after 20 years, can keep going, and not give up hope, and put themselves out there, then, we can too. And we, that gave us,

[00:20:50] the strength, not to give up hope. And, we're fortunate. Some of those people, are still walking, without their cases solved. Gosh. I, I, I mean, you, you, your family, really, did go very public, with your advocacy for Libby, really keeping the case, in the forefront, keeping the conversation going. Um, was that, at some point, sort of a conscious decision? Did you sort of,

[00:21:19] fall into that? Can you just tell us, about your journey, in terms of, that advocacy? In the beginning, of course, you're kind of in a daze, you don't, you, you, you don't know. At, at the very first, we weren't doing anything, and then, we had a friend, that was set up, at a festival, uh, a county over. They were a county north of us. And they called us, and this was like, in August, and said,

[00:21:48] do you realize, there's a lot of people, right up here, a county over, that's not even heard of your case? And we thought, oh, wow, that was, uh, that was something, that was something to hear that. And we thought, how are, how are they going to get the tip? How are they going to find this guy, if people don't even know about it, to help? So, that was when we made the decision, okay. Okay, that's when we started, the flyer campaign,

[00:22:17] and started going, everywhere we possibly could, to tell the story, to tell about the girls. We set up, at festivals every week, we went, anywhere, everywhere, that somebody would have us, so that we could tell about the girls, and try to get help. And we decided, that was, what we could do best, for the police. And, we had asked them, several times, what, what do you want us to do? And they would always say, just keep doing what you're doing.

[00:22:47] And yes, we did come out, and we were very vocal. And sometimes I wonder, if we should have done that or not, but, when I sat back, and think about it, I don't think I would change it. And, by coming out, and being vocal, you also, make yourself a target. We realized that, and we realized, that, if that's what, we had to put ourselves through, if that's what it took, to keep people talking,

[00:23:17] then so be it. At least their story, was getting out there. And we chose, to do whatever it took, to, raise awareness. You did become a target, certainly on social media. There were people out there, that I frankly would describe, as cranks, who really targeted, your family, in ways that really often, seemed just cruel. Vile. And despicable. Can you talk about, the social media landscape,

[00:23:47] that grew up around this case? What I've seen on social media, is a lot of times, somebody, will say something, that maybe isn't true. True. And it gets repeated, and repeated, and repeated, to finally, nobody even knows, who started it. But they start believing it, because they heard it, and enough people, are now saying it. You can't stop that.

[00:24:19] And, in the beginning, I would come out, and I would try to tell them, the truth. You know, people say that, we changed our story, throughout. And, I don't know, that my story changed, more than a couple of minutes, and when the girls, were dropped off, that that was because, I had gone back, and found through, phone records, a closer time, so I changed it. 10 minutes, wasn't a big deal. But obviously, to some people, that's a big deal.

[00:24:49] Sometimes, Kelsey would say things, that, in the beginning, she remembered one way, just like me, three times, three times, you'll be sitting there, and something will pop in, and it's like, oh my gosh, oh, yeah, now, now this makes sense. I didn't remember something, one way. Or, if we would find out, something from the police, because I am the one, that gave the description, of Libby,

[00:25:19] when they started, searching for her. And, when she left the house, she was in a tie-dye, t-shirt, I did not know, that later she, grabbed a sweatshirt, had no clue. So, when I gave the description, that night, I did not include, the sweatshirt. And there's been, a whole lot of, flack over that. And when I saw Libby, sitting on the floor, shortly before she left, she had on sweat.

[00:25:49] And it wasn't until later, when the police, we were talking, with the police, that I find out, that she had on June. Had she changed those? She may have. And when she said, goodbye to me, she was standing, at the door, behind, a desk. So, did I see her pants? No. Did I think anything, about that? No. So that's why, I gave the description, that I gave, because that's what, I remember,

[00:26:18] Kelsey did not give, a description, shame, because, at the time, when I gave the description, to the police, she had been at work. She wasn't there. They needed a description then. And then they talked about, how our times changed, for like, drop off. Oh, it started out, one o'clock, and then it ended up, to you know, one forty. Well, we never said, one o'clock. I, I do remember, because I had told them,

[00:26:48] that she left, about one thirty. And I do remember, on the news that night, they said that they left, at one o'clock. Well, to me, at that point, I knew that, first off, the news said it, I didn't. And, did it really matter, in finding the girls, at that time? No. So there's, you know, there's a lot of things, that just kind of, come out different, that really isn't a big deal. You know, there's people saying, that the girls, were never even dropped off.

[00:27:20] And, Kelsey's car, is on video. The police could see it. But they just, you know, if you was to come out, and say that, oh, prove it. Well, you know, the police aren't going to give us, those videos. So, I mean, there's just lots, of things. Another big thing, people used to say, and they still do sometimes, that, oh, Becky said, to Mike, they got our girls. She said, oh,

[00:27:49] I'm Dr. Phil. Well, you know, somebody had recorded, Dr. Phil, on their VCR, and let them have, let them hear it. I mean, it can't be changed, when it's on your VCR case. But the people didn't want to hear, because then they said, oh no, they edited that out. You can't find it anymore. Well, somebody said, no, I recorded it. It's not in there. Oh, well, then it must have been somewhere else.

[00:28:18] And at one time, I finally said to the people, just show me, show me where I said it. Of course, they're saying everything's been edited. But every time you come out and try to tell the truth, they don't want to, you know, they don't want to hear it. I would argue they don't care about it, because, I mean, the goalposts are constantly moving on you guys in particular. And if you have people who are dealing in good faith and really want to know something, when they're presented evidence

[00:28:48] that what they believe is not true, they should back off that opinion. But these people refuse to. And that, in the beginning, I, I, I didn't use Facebook or social media for anything more than being in contact with my family and, and Farmville, you know, playing a game. That, that was the, that was the extent of my using social media. I love Farmville, by the way. I was all over that back in the day.

[00:29:17] Farmville and cafe world. And so, when I turned out that there were these groups for me, Tara and I, we went into, because I thought at that point, oh my gosh, all of these people want to help. They want to help us. So, you know, any question they would ask, we answered. Okay, if this will help, if this will help them find clues, let's answer, let's answer, let's answer.

[00:29:47] If I had it to do all over again, I probably wouldn't do that. Because I know now, I know that a lot of those people aren't coming out to help you. They're coming out to twist your words and whatever. And, and, you know, every single one of us in our family, the police know exactly where we were and what we were doing. That's all been,

[00:30:16] our whereabouts has all been accounted for. You sure can't tell them that. Well, now the police are in the conspiracy now, so the goalposts move yet again. Yeah. And I, I do want to clear off one thing. Yeah. Nick McClellan has never, ever been related to Libby. Ever. By marriage or any other way. I just want to clear that up. That didn't happen.

[00:30:46] What happened was, who is now Terry German, a long time ago, was married to Nick's uncle. No relation. She's no relation to us. None. Her and Nick's uncle got a divorce. And later on, she married Libby's grandpa, grandma,

[00:31:16] which makes her now grandma by marriage. But when she was married to McClellan, no relation to us. So Nick has never, ever been tied as a family member to our family. That's a fact. That's good to clear up. And, and that's just being in a small town. I mean, Delphi, Carroll County, this is like, it's,

[00:31:46] everybody goes to school with everybody. You've only got two, two schools in the whole county. So, no, we were never intertwined. It was never a conflict of emphasis for him to be the prosecutor. There again, that's just people resting to death. I think just people making stuff up, to be blunt at this point, I think, I think, I really think with your family in particular, with the families in this case, there's a, people are

[00:32:16] uncomfortable with something horrible happening to good people, so they have to cast you all in the role of villains to basically make themselves feel okay about our very disturbing and random world. But that's just me editorializing. I know. That's me right. No, it's sick. I mean, it's like, they don't want to have to accept that just horrible things happen. They have to try to see patterns in everything in order to feel okay in the world,

[00:32:46] but it's just And then by doing that, they make more horrible things happen because they victimize innocent people who are already suffering. Well, finally, you get to a point that you just don't let them get to you anymore. I'm sure on some of them, they're so ridiculous, I just act and think, boy, oh, boy, you know, they're looking like a fool. You know, we're talking about people on social media, but there's also people in,

[00:33:15] I don't know where you would describe them, but there's people out there like, frankly, Bob Mata, who spread information about the case, even sit with the family of the accused man, the Allens. What do you make of people like that? I'm still trying to figure him out. There's a few, a couple that I'm just trying to figure out. I don't understand. I don't understand how you can sit in hearings, sit in

[00:33:45] trial, and come out, and you're supposed to be telling what all happened, but you can't report what really happened. That confuses me. Or, if you do come out and say something, and it's proven wrong in court, why don't you have

[00:34:14] the balls come out and say, yeah, I was wrong? But they don't. They don't. They just cover it and go on. Yeah, I think why let the truth get in the way of good conspiracy theory? I'm wondering, you know, as far as, you know, there have been on social media and just throughout the focus on this case, there have been, I think, good things. I think some

[00:34:44] Facebook groups, people who are doing stuff, you know, are trying their best. I think there are a lot of people out there who do genuinely care about Libby and Abby and the case. You know, what would your recommendations be for people, you know, who are following a case on how to raise awareness and engage with that case in a way that's respectful and not completely out of control? I don't think you're going to be able to stop that, not in today's world. What about for the people who want to

[00:35:13] do good, who maybe are not sure about how to go about that, but they want, they have a good intention? Tell the facts. That's the best thing that you can do for any case, is only put the facts out there. And that's what we have asked throughout this whole thing. Just put out the truth. Not rumors, not speculation, not, oh, I know, without anything to

[00:35:43] back it up. That's all you can do, is put out facts so that people can make an informed opinion on their own. You know, this is one question I had, and this is, I really feel like you guys, with the advocacy you did for Libby and this case, and just doing things like talking about the case in the media, going to CrimeCon, raising awareness, continuing to do that, even in the face of some of this very unfair and horrible

[00:36:12] nonsense that you had to face online, what would your advice be for families who find themselves in a similar situation at the heart of a major case? first thing I would say is don't take all that stuff personally. Those people don't know you, they don't know your character, they're just out there for the entertainment, but don't let them get to you. That's probably the most

[00:36:41] important thing that I've learned is you have to learn to become thick-skinned and just don't let them get to you. You have to, and every family has to make the decision whether they're going to put themselves out there or not. And sometimes you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. So I don't know that in any high-profile case or any other

[00:37:12] if people think you did the right decision no matter what you do. So you have to do what you feel is right. And we felt it was right to be outspoken. Absolutely. And is there a way that you were able to stay sane mentally while dealing with this that you would be able to pass on to other people who might find that situation? At that point in time all you can do is really

[00:37:42] gather you a support system. We are fortunate that we have a very large family and lots of great friends that kind of wrapped around us and supported us. Everybody needs a support system through all of this. And that's my recommendation to try to get a support system.

[00:38:11] One truly horrible aspect of this case beyond just the underlying horrific crime is that photos that never should have leaked out to the public leaked out to the public and continue to circulate online. What has that meant for your family and Abby's family? That means that we deal with it for the rest of our lives and the generations that are to come after us. Our family

[00:38:41] will never totally get away from this because you can never get all those photos offline. They will always be there. And there's the potential for somebody from our family that may be researching, being curious, the next generation or the next generation when they hear us talking about Libby to decide they want to look for themselves

[00:39:10] for those photos to come out. That will never be taken away from our family. That potential will always be there. How does it make you feel when you have people, either creators who are supportive of the defense team in this case or defense attorneys basically minimizing the leak and saying, well, it's not a huge deal? They're not in our shoes, are they? No. All I

[00:39:39] say to people is put yourself in our shoes for just one minute. If that were your child, would you be okay with them being out there? If that were wanting your loved ones laying there in the position that the girls were in, would you be okay for just anybody seeing them? Those girls were at their most vulnerable. Libby was a very modest person,

[00:40:09] and this leak has taken it away. I think those two kids are owed their privacy in death, and I don't understand why people continue sharing them. I don't know. And, you know, Baldwin may not have had anything to do with them. May not have. May have been a victim himself, but the fact remains, he did not have them put up.

[00:40:39] He did not. Somebody had access to them. That is a fact. So, in one respect, he does have some culpability there. and all it would have taken would have been for them to say, you know what, we really messed up. I'm sorry. I understand what this means to you guys. But for them to just minimize it, like it's not a big deal,

[00:41:09] it is a big deal. Maybe not to them. Granted, it may not mean a thing to them. So, we live with it forever. And that's not a small thing. And they tried to make it a small thing. That's wrong. It would have made a huge difference had they just said, man, we did. We messed up. We're sorry. That would have gone a long way.

[00:41:39] So, okay, you know, yep. But to do it now, now it's just saving faith. Now you don't mean it. So, that shit failed. Yeah, that certainly seems fair. And I'm curious, you know, in terms of this case, we have the conviction of Richard Allen. He's been found guilty on four counts, sentenced. But, you know, there's still conspiracy theories. There's still

[00:42:09] kind of nonsense going around. Is there something at this point that would help your family or family or even Abby's family? If you don't want to speak for them, that's okay, but just would help the families in this case, kind of, now that we're in this different phase of the case? Well, I think everything has to run its course. There's nothing. You can't stop what the defense is doing.

[00:42:39] So, it has to run its course. But we understand that it has to run its course. So, we've learned the patient to step back and let it run its course and let the treat come out and let it squash it and then go on. One day it will be over. One day it will. Yeah. And going back a little bit, I did want to ask you, in terms of the trial, what did you think of the performance

[00:43:09] of the prosecution team, Nicholas McClellan, Stacey Diener, James Luttrell? I thought they were stellar. They complemented each other very well. Each one of them had their strength areas and each of them focused on that, on their strength. And because of that, they melded together very well and I feel that they put on a very good

[00:43:38] prosecution, a good, it was a, it told a story. each story. And they did it well. I don't know that we could have had a better team than what we had. We've alluded to this a bit, but I'd just like to ask you, what did you make of the performance of the defense team? Brad Rosie, Andrew Baldwin, and Jennifer Auger?

[00:44:08] I guess they were doing their job, right? There were no things that happened that I felt like they crossed a line, but I understand they were doing their job, but I don't feel that lawyers should do their job at the expense of the victims. I think they made Richard Allen into a victim instead of the real

[00:44:38] victims. I just felt the girls got lost in all of that, and they shouldn't have. I was just wondering, you know, there's some wonderful opportunities for people to help keep Libby and Abby's memories alive. I'm thinking of things like the park, things like scholarship funds. Can you tell us a little bit more about that, about how sort of their memories kind of continue to give back to this community? Those

[00:45:08] girls do have scholarship funds? They both give a scholarship to Adelphi students every year. That could always be grown if they want to. It's through the Carroll County Community Foundation. They're the ones that hold that for us. The park, we're always trying to grow that, make it a nicer place for the community,

[00:45:39] not just for the entire community, not in remembrance of the girls. But we also have made that park to be a memorial park for other families. We do have the pavers down there that people can purchase the paver in memorial of one of their loved ones in memory of them. So we've tried to make this to include the entire community.

[00:46:11] And we can only, you know, like I said, we still have part of a parking lot that needs to be paid. There's always maintenance. There's always things for the park. And so if anybody ever wanted to contribute or buy a paver for a loved one or something, they can go to the Abbey and Libby Memorial site. All that information is there. Or if you really want to just do something, do an act of kindness like the girls would have done.

[00:46:42] Because, you know, kindness can be contagious. So one good deed, maybe they'll pass it on to the next person. Sort of like that, pay it forward. Do that in honor the girls. They would be happy. If you could say something to Libby, what would you say to her? I miss you.

[00:47:12] It's hard because we really do miss her. I know. You know, she should be here. And when we are doing things, that's what you think. She should be here with us. She should be doing this. You know, she should be getting ready to graduate college. It's not she's the one sitting here waiting for the phone call. She'd be a great aunt, you know, and a great mom, I'm sure too.

[00:47:42] Oh, she'd be a wonderful mom. She would, she would do. Thanks very much to Becky Patty for taking the time to speak to us. We so appreciate it. The strength that she and the other loved ones of both Abby and Libby have displayed throughout this entire ordeal is an inspiration. And again, we'd like to congratulate her and her family on the birth of their grandchild. Thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover,

[00:48:11] please email us at murdersheet at gmail.com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities. If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at

[00:48:40] www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support. Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the murdersheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com. If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting,

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